E85 Safe or Unsafe? - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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E85 Safe or Unsafe?

E85... I'm tuned to run it, but I think the biggest set-back is the word-of-mouth regarding fuel system degradation.
Is this anything to worry about? Anyone else running it?

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post #2 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 08:32 AM
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I hate that stuff. It's hygroscopic in nature and will hold and retain more water in it which can lead to deterioration.

It's good for adding some power on a modified motor if tuned to use it, but you have to flow more of it which requires different parts and components and will hurt your fuel mileage. Don't expect to add a tune for E85 into a power commander map and instantly gain 5 Hp. It doesn't work like that. It's better for the environment though!

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post #3 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SkyDork View Post
I hate that stuff. It's hygroscopic in nature and will hold and retain more water in it which can lead to deterioration.

It's good for adding some power on a modified motor if tuned to use it, but you have to flow more of it which requires different parts and components and will hurt your fuel mileage. Don't expect to add a tune for E85 into a power commander map and instantly gain 5 Hp. It doesn't work like that. It's better for the environment though!
Great info! And yeah I know you take away MPG for power... burns like what 40% more than pump Can the stock injectors even dish out that much additional fuel.

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post #4 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ddipaola View Post
Great info! And yeah I know you take away MPG for power... burns like what 40% more than pump Can the stock injectors even dish out that much additional fuel.


I'll have to defer to people smarter than me for that answer. If my memory is correct based on what I've heard, the injectors can handle it but the fuel pump and pressure is the bigger concern. Don't quote me on that though!


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post #5 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ddipaola View Post
E85... I'm tuned to run it, but I think the biggest set-back is the word-of-mouth regarding fuel system degradation.
Is this anything to worry about? Anyone else running it?
If you're point is to gain octane without the cost, I would ask why? That only makes sense on the road, if you track/race, the cost of high octane fuels is minimal by comparison.

More to the point about fuel system safety, ethanol leaves a varnish on the fuel components and requires a stainless steel system to keep this form happening. You'll also be needing to more fuel per atmospheres to create a proper AFR, so fuel consumption will be up.

For a street outlaw setup on say: a turbo bike/car, I think its perfect but for any track oriented vehicle it's not that easy to decide. Personally, I'll stick to U4.4 or VP110 for octane even if it cost me $15-20 more in fuel per trackday/race weekend.

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Last edited by Neonmarine; 06-15-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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post #6 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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If you're point is to gain octane without the cost, I would ask why? That only makes sense on the road, if you track/race, the cost of high octane fuels is minimal by comparison.

More to the point about fuel system safety, ethanol leaves a varnish on the fuel components and requires a stainless steel system to keep this form happening. You'll also be needing to more fuel per atmospheres to create a proper AFR, so fuel consumption will be up.

For a street outlaw setup on say: a turbo bike/car, I think its perfect but for any track oriented vehicle it's not that easy to decide. Personally, I'll stick to U4.4 or VP110 for octane even if it cost me $15-20 more in fuel per trackday/race weekend.
I'm primarily looking into E85 for street use. I saw Schnitz has a replacement fuel pump safe w/ ethanol based fuels, but it sounds like I'll need more than just that? What else? I don't mind the fuel consumption (I know the cost savings are nil). An extra couple horsepower but a bit more toque would be nice for street "racing" or whatever
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post #7 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 12:53 PM
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I run e85 in my car, once the fuel system is up to snuff it’s not really much maintenance. Basically a big thing to watch out for, I run Stainless braided fuel line in my car, I switched from Q16 to E85 and it ate the rubber from the hose internally over time. I was finding black residue. I had to switch to PTFE line. I don’t know how difficult it would be to make those style of lines for our bikes.

The gains were awesome, more timing, and less detonation. Fuel consumption will definitely be up. My fuel pump was rated to around 2,000hp forced induction on gas, when I switched to E it went down to 1,500. I since went belt drive to have safety margin since it’s 1,400 to the wheel.

Maintenance wise just make sure to run the bike atleast 1-2 times a week, storing it for a while drain it or run it out and replace with gas. Sitting is the biggest enemy.

There is definitely gains to be had with it, but any fuel your going to have to tune for. But E85 is the poor man MR12, I will be getting an E85 map done on my bike once I figure out what all needs upgraded. There was a member on here who actually messed around with it and picked up awesome gains. Everyone opinion will vary, a lot will be going off hear say, in my personal experience it’s awesome and cheap.
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post #8 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MPac View Post
I run e85 in my car, once the fuel system is up to snuff itís not really much maintenance. Basically a big thing to watch out for, I run Stainless braided fuel line in my car, I switched from Q16 to E85 and it ate the rubber from the hose internally over time. I was finding black residue. I had to switch to PTFE line. I donít know how difficult it would be to make those style of lines for our bikes .
Swapping out the lines doesn't seem like too much of a chore then I guess. Summit Racing has some stainless braided PTFE lines. The fittings are ABS I'm assuming (I'm not a plastics guy), which I'm seeing is safe. And I assume the fuel rails and other stuff are stainless which is also a safe material according to a chart I'm looking at. And then Schnitz has this $80 pump if you're running ethanol based fuel: https://store.schnitzracing.com/quan...ki-zx10-08-18/
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post #9 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 02:48 PM
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E85 for street riding? So what are you going to do when your tank is low within 80 miles of riding and there's no e85 stations around? ECU/PCV tuning doesn't allow for flex fuel so you can't run a mix of both.
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post #10 of 24 Old 06-15-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MPac View Post
There is definitely gains to be had with it, but any fuel your going to have to tune for. But E85 is the poor man MR12, I will be getting an E85 map done on my bike once I figure out what all needs upgraded. There was a member on here who actually messed around with it and picked up awesome gains. Everyone opinion will vary, a lot will be going off hear say, in my personal experience it’s awesome and cheap.
I'm not trying to be a dick but E85 has very little in common with MR12. The only "performance gain" from running E85 is due to its high octane (105 if memory serves). MR12 actually has a lower octane by comparison (87 octane). The gain from E85 is 100% from running a more advanced ignition timing. MR12 is all about adding oxygen from the fuel. When tuning for a fuel like MR12 there is going to be an increase of about 10-15% in the fuel tables to offset the added oxygen brought in by the fuel, that's why MR12 works so well.

Running E85 might seem like a similar situation but it's really not. By adding to the octane count you can increase the spark advance but this will only get you so far, the engine still has a limit on how much oxygen it can pull in to mix with the fuel. Once you reach that limit, you have to start adding oxygen by other methods (forced induction, nitrous, oxygenated fuels).

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Originally Posted by ddipaola View Post
Swapping out the lines doesn't seem like too much of a chore then I guess. Summit Racing has some stainless braided PTFE lines. The fittings are ABS I'm assuming (I'm not a plastics guy), which I'm seeing is safe. And I assume the fuel rails and other stuff are stainless which is also a safe material according to a chart I'm looking at. And then Schnitz has this $80 pump if you're running ethanol based fuel: https://store.schnitzracing.com/quan...ki-zx10-08-18/
My point here is that by doing such a conversion specifically to use high ethanol fuel, is hardly worth the cost in a bike. You'll see little performance in comparison to just having a secondary map switch for U4.4 or MR12.

How much is it worth to be able to say "I run E85, had pay to convert my entire fuel system, pay for a special tune, can't go 100 miles to a tank and am chained to the gas stations that have it at the pump"????

In the end, if that's cool with you: rock out
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