Gen 1: 2004-2005 Brakes kind of suck . . - Page 3 - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #21 of 49 Old 11-02-2015, 12:23 AM
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Im 6ft 270lbs and after a couple hard brakes from high speed the oem system with HH pads just couldn't handle it and would fade. After installing the Nissin's I had zero fade and a MUCH better feel/response.
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post #22 of 49 Old 11-04-2015, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Twist-IT View Post
Im 6ft 270lbs and after a couple hard brakes from high speed the oem system with HH pads just couldn't handle it and would fade. After installing the Nissin's I had zero fade and a MUCH better feel/response.
I'm only 170lbs fully geared.Whenever I have to lay heavy on the breaks, it seems like I can feel them bending or warping.. I can't really explain it but it's an uneasy feeling, even with new pads. I recently picked up some Nissin calipers and I'll look to install them sometime soon.
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post #23 of 49 Old 11-09-2015, 09:01 AM
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You haven't installed those yet??!!! Only kidding. When you do install, it is very important to bleed the lines and MC completely. The stock MC is OK if you get it bled correctly. Another tip - don't use the stock rubber brake lines, period. That's just wasting your time. If you feel a pulsing or jerky-grabbing while steady braking then you have a bent or worn out rotor.
For excellent brakes:
ZX6R radial master cylinder
CBR1000 calipers with 5mm spacers
Stainless steel braided lines
HH pads
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post #24 of 49 Old 12-23-2015, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadedJD View Post
Alright, well before my zx10r, I had a 2006 r6 and the front brakes were superb. I really miss the stopping power.

I've read that this isn't too uncommon and people do many types of conversions but it wasn't much detail on the threads.

I've looked up some parts such as this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-11-KAWASA...24a242&vxp=mtr

but I'm unsure of what all else is included in changing the front brake and what other parts will I need so if someone could tell me the possible conversions and parts necessary for better breaking, that'd be great

I agree to every member who mentioned the Original front brake are good or excellent.
The original FRONT brake system on first gen ZX-10R is flawless in my opinion for a bike that is prouduce to travel in public streets and roads. I have raced with few vehicles and made them fail quickly. I can make the original rear brake on first gen failed in about just 1 minute. I raced once hard with another crazy but experienced rider with a sooped up bike and my front brake caught fire but they did not fail. They performed perfect and i just believe i have some smokes from the engine. As soon as i stopped at the red light (and i could see the guy killing himself to get to me in my mirrors) i noticed wire burning smell and the flame hit under my body. I pulled over from line 1 digits (between line 1 and 2) crossed over traffic and the guy i raced and won (oh yeah) and pull the side, put the bike on kick stand, took my gloves off and my cell phone to prepare to call 911, and started fanning the engine. Then it caught my attention that the flames are coming from my front brakes pads and not my engine (!!!!!). Their flame was not like the fire on the match or lighter; Their flame was like a "ground flame" in jongles. I never had my brake caught actual flame and to me it was not exactly amazing but quite experienced (My Lovely bike; I love my BIKE!).

If you are Not experiencing an absolute flawless braking do these steps:
1. Take a look at reservoir and if you do not see a clear fluid or see clear fluid but you see some dust/staff at the bottom of your reservoir, flush the system. For that you do not need to buy any thing, just get a container about 1 liter (I/4 gallon), open the bolt hose that is connected to brake calipers, and let the brake fluid drain in the container. As soon as there is no fluid in the reservoir any more, wipe the reservoir with a clean rag.

2. Then uninstall both calipers (you still have some old brake fluid inside them that you need to let them drain as well).

3. Then on a wide clean table, uninstall the the bleeding bolt and brake pads and put them on the side.

4. Then Remove the brake pad springs (sides and under) on each caliper and check their condition (it is common that they might break or the side springs get lost during brake pad exchange. If that is the case, new springs need to be provided. ONLY buy those springs from Kawasaki Dealer.

5. Then remove the piston and check the rubber sealing condition. If the rubber sealing is broken or has crack, it needs exchange with a new one. ONLY buy that rubber sealing from Kawasaki Dealer.

6. The Piston itself does not go wrong.

7. After you did all this and fix the problem parts or inspect parts and they were ok, clean the brake caliper with a clean rag and install calipers parts back.

NOTE: Do not use air compressor or air at any source to clean any brake parts because the smell and material are poisonous and bad for your longs, skin, and eyes. Brake fluid by itself casue blindness.

8. Clean the front brake assembely on the bike and install the brake calipers and their hoses.

9. Put Brand new qualified DOT 4 on the reservoir and perform the bleeding procedure.

10. Adjust your brake lever as you can apply all four finger onto the brake lever and pull it with your maximum grip and put your four fingers back at the handle bar gripped at least amount of time (Very important).

11. Test drive the bike and the brake in a safe area.

12. You should have absolutely flawless FRONT brakes.

13. There is no 13.

14. Respects Shervin Asemani

:)

Last edited by ShervinRRR; 01-01-2016 at 06:26 PM.
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post #25 of 49 Old 12-23-2015, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShervinRRR View Post
I agree to every member who mentioned the Original front brake are good.
The original FRONT brake system on first gen ZX-10R is flawless. I have race with few vehicle and make them fail quickly. I can make the original rear brake on first gen fail in about just 1 minutes. I raced once hard with another crazy but experience and sooped up bike and my front brake caught fire but they did not fail. They really caught fire and I had to pull over and check the engine and saw oooh see my front brake are smoking not my engine (!!!!!).




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post #26 of 49 Old 12-24-2015, 03:58 AM
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Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there..
When the brakes were "cold" the brake force on the lever meant you could NOT pull the lever onto the handle, unless doing it with two hands. So there was some MASSIVE brake fade going on.
And yes, the calipers were serviced not too long before.

(fixed the problem now with Nissin calipers from a 07/08 ZX-6R and Brembo HPK 320mm discs)
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post #27 of 49 Old 12-24-2015, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTFDarkEagle View Post
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there..
When the brakes were "cold" the brake force on the lever meant you could NOT pull the lever onto the handle, unless doing it with two hands. So there was some MASSIVE brake fade going on.
And yes, the calipers were serviced not too long before.

(fixed the problem now with Nissin calipers from a 07/08 ZX-6R and Brembo HPK 320mm discs)
I don't think he got lucky, I love to seat hard on the brakes as well, I have replace the rotors and the master cylinder but stayed with the OEM calipers. never had any issue of losing braking power or anything that comes even close to that. I did however felt it when I was still with the OEM master cylinder.
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post #28 of 49 Old 12-24-2015, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MTFDarkEagle View Post
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there.

luck involved as his brakes are inadequate just as the rest when heavily used. These stories and so-called servicing fixes were addressed 11 years ago, shervin read up.


merry christmas
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post #29 of 49 Old 12-24-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Nofoot View Post
I don't think he got lucky, I love to seat hard on the brakes as well, I have replace the rotors and the master cylinder but stayed with the OEM calipers. never had any issue of losing braking power or anything that comes even close to that. I did however felt it when I was still with the OEM master cylinder.
This has been debated many many times over and still won't go away. Those who changed master say its the master, those who changed calipers say it was calipers, those that changed the lines say its the lines, those that changed it all say its everything....

The stock brakes will stop the bike. Is there room for improvement? Of course, there always is.

I went with ZX6 radial master and braided lines at 15,000 miles and it improved them for sure. After 55,000+ miles on stock pads, I went to CBR1000 monobloc Tokicos and noticed another increase in stopping ability and pressure.
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post #30 of 49 Old 12-24-2015, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTFDarkEagle View Post
Shervin:

You must have gotten lucky...
When I was on the track with my (then) stock Tokico's and RCS19 pump, after two laps I could pull the brake lever absolutely onto the handle, and the brake force wasn't there..
When the brakes were "cold" the brake force on the lever meant you could NOT pull the lever onto the handle, unless doing it with two hands. So there was some MASSIVE brake fade going on.
And yes, the calipers were serviced not too long before.

(fixed the problem now with Nissin calipers from a 07/08 ZX-6R and Brembo HPK 320mm discs)
I believe the reason that after 2 laps your levers reached the handle is cheap brake pads.
Additional reason would be an unlevel disc (if you uninstall the disc and place it on a plane, no light should pass under it.

If your brake were that hard that you could n't pull the lever after the bike got cold, I believe the problem is actually 3 or at least 2 of these:
1) your brake pads side springs (pins) are not missing but they are broken and do not allow the brake pads come back properly.
2) your brake pads mounting springs are deshaped or broken and do not allow the pads to move back

3) (it might or it might not) Your rubber sealing has been damaged and some of its damaged parts are now in the space behind the pads and prevent the pads of moving back compeletly.

I believe your problem was solved after you changed to Nissin and Brembo discs as well as other members change their calipers and the problem was solved.
What I believe is the problem here is the fact, that the OEM parts that you guys changed had cheap pad, broken parts in the brake calipers, and the system was not bleeded just like "Johns04ZX10R" mentioned.



You guys are lovely. I knew i forgot something. I just didn't know what. I forgot several aspects that without them you won't get perfect flawless front brake on you OEM brakes. Those 2 aspects that i forgot to mention are:

1) Brake pads themselves

2) Brake rotors
And
3) Brake lever

Do not install the basic brake pads on your calipers. First of all not only they don't last long but most importantly, most of the braking force goes into melting those cheap pads instead of stopping the bike. Go with the med or advanced version which has seramic and other metallic and pads from tougher materials. They provide great braking and they last longer and provide less amount of pollution every time you brake (see friend of environment here :) ).

Most speed vehicles have a protective layer on the rotor to protect the surface of the rotor and provide more firction that with a burn out pads and having the ribbits of the pads rubbing at the rotor, those layer would get damaged. If you are planning for a heavy speed race you need that layer unharmed on your brake rotors. For regular street use, just service your brake system and you do not need that layer.
One very important flaw in rotors, is the fact that they lose their shape or they are not level at first to begin with like ALL brake rotors from our lovely producers in China. having an uneven rotor mess up your whole race experience, they create heat, they rub your brake pads and can damage brake system parts.
Many times in races they brake rotors on fourmual 1 cars turns red not becasue of the driver braking too much but becasue the brake rotor lost its leveled condition and is engaged at all times.

A leveled brake rotor is a rotor that if you place that rotor on a plane you should see all the parts of the rotor sits on that flat plane.

Now, for the brake lever, You wont believe my statement until you actually experience it yourself. If your brake lever is a cheap brake lever -might look good or not- it does not provide the true power of your brakes. Buy an OEM brake lever for 2005 or 06/07 from Kawasaki Dealership and install them and adjust them with a tight grip (1) and you understand what i am talking about.
Note: Do not buy OEM brake lever for gen 1 or gen 2 on Amazon or online because they look almost the same as the Actual OEM but their difference to OEM is sky to ground. ONLY and ONLY buy your brake lever from Kawasaki Dealer.
I had installed 06/07 and 2005 brake OEM on my bike and they are both excellent.

Someone mentioned on cold weather, they experience tough braking on the brake lever...
Well, i believe that you have a problem in your brake system or you just think this is April and trying to joke with me. I have ridden in under degrees celicious (the temperature that regular water freezes) and brake lever is just fine. The temperatures under 30 degress celcius are so cold that public regulation encourage people to stay at home not because your brake fluid freezes but because our body freezes.

Your brake fluid does not freezes or -even thicken so hard- at our regular cold riding temperature. They get thicken very very slightly.

Now, to all riders:
Your healthy brake lever tension (even at the toughest grip adjustment (1), is smooth enough that if you have the bike parked and attempted to pull the brake with your pinky finger (smallest finger) you can with effort. I don't have crazy bulky fingers but still can with some might effort to pull the front brake all the way in with my pinky finger. I have do it easily with all my other fingers without might effort (with DOT 4 and with Adjustment (1)). So if your brake levers are hard to pull there is a problem somewhere.

The improvement area:
The rear brake on first gen is very weak and emprovments in my opinion is necesseriy if you are planning to race. I have seen stunt riders add another caliper and join that with the orignial caliper for better stopping. In my opinion if you are plannign a race (speed race) it is better to provide additional cylinder and reservoir within the additinal caliper and not just the cliper joined with the OEM.

For the frount if you are planning a heavy race like a Moto GP, i do recommend 2 different seprate brakes on front for each caliper (2 reservoirs as well). The bigger rotor with more intelligent strengened material, bigger brake lines and tougher pads, are all recommended.
I believe in a heavy race like a Moto GP the Original brakes on first gen will fail due to pressure and temperature.


* Every aspects in this post and other posts that i mentioned is based on my knowledge and experience that i actually performed, investigated, and achieved.
I did not copy any other post.
I did not even support someone's idea unless i actually investigated or tested that on my own and reach the same answer.

Last edited by ShervinRRR; 12-25-2015 at 07:49 PM.
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