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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-21-2017 06:08 AM
Carlos76 You keep GSXR as backup bike in case you have crash or engine failure.

A local trackday costs around 250 euros when using second hand tires.
If I race or travel then new tires and it costs arround 600-1000 euros per day.
Spare parts, maintenance gear and many other items cost 3k to 5k per season.
In order to "race" you need to do at least 20 days per season resulting roughly 15k per season plus new bike every 4 years.
Private budget rookie superstock case.
09-20-2017 03:22 PM
10Arghh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos76 View Post

P:S Try spending more money on trackdays than building the bike.
You made me think now.

Maybe I don't buy a Gen 5 and just use the money on a race season with my race prepped GSXR1000K5 (full Ohlins, gas flowed head, cams and quick shifter).

Would have to buy aftermarket TC package, but still thats £600 rather than £10000.
09-19-2017 09:38 AM
Carlos76
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Arghh View Post
Thanks...Yes I always thought a percentage was a better way to represent that.

My style has been to run into a corner and try to carry a lot of speed through it. This worked fine for me just doing track days for 10 years especially with Bridgestone R10s that promote this style of riding.

However, I learned within the last 3 years from Simon Crafar that to use the full potential of a superbike, you need to maximise drive out of corners using a more square line out of turns. And I have been trying to ride like this ever since, but found the limit on my GSXR 1000 K5 a few years ago, when I fired myself into the air using too much 'drive', funnily enough trying to catch a guy on a gen 4 ZX10R with full TC :D

Whilst I had my G4 I found it was a harder bike to steer, but never got to try it on track before it was stolen.

The G5 will be track only and I'm on a budget, but I hear there is more to get the bike working right with the stock equipment than previous models.

I still have my Bitubo shock which I likely will have to change the valving in to work with the G5, then the next step will be Bitubo gas cartridge kit.

Got to start saving ££££

Btw, how are you liking your adjustable yokes (triple clamps)?

I have adjustable triples at 30mm offset (stock is 26mm), I like them because steering requires less force and no ill sideeffects, but there is no laptime advantage from them. Just did build almost same spec gen4 for my brother and riding back to back with stock triples I can say that it something that "102%" racer could need to shave 0.1s per lap.

Remember watching Crafar video where he said: stay leaned over for 1s longer than usual then you can pick bike up quickly and have much earlier drive. Strong pull at inner handlebar, bike stands up quick, grip goes progressivley up, hard throttle possible. Many rookie races have proper mid corner speed, but stay leaned over "forever" and roll on at constant lean angle (highside danger).

P:S Try spending more money on trackdays than building the bike.
09-19-2017 08:17 AM
10Arghh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos76 View Post
Best we compare to Superstock1000 bikes where qualifying normative is usually 107% to 110% of the winner of qualifying time. 110% makes only +5s in Brands Hatch, but in Brno +12s!
Three years back my pace was at 112% and I could not make any difference between running Gen4 stock forks and Ktech cart. At 110% started a little to feel what front end is doing. Now my pace is 107% and I'm just starting to understand what the term "front end feel" maybe really means, while my corner entry and trail braking still sucks.
I think gen5 stock forks are easily sufficent unil some 109% pace.
Thanks...Yes I always thought a percentage was a better way to represent that.

My style has been to run into a corner and try to carry a lot of speed through it. This worked fine for me just doing track days for 10 years especially with Bridgestone R10s that promote this style of riding.

However, I learned within the last 3 years from Simon Crafar that to use the full potential of a superbike, you need to maximise drive out of corners using a more square line out of turns. And I have been trying to ride like this ever since, but found the limit on my GSXR 1000 K5 a few years ago, when I fired myself into the air using too much 'drive', funnily enough trying to catch a guy on a gen 4 ZX10R with full TC :D

Whilst I had my G4 I found it was a harder bike to steer, but never got to try it on track before it was stolen.

The G5 will be track only and I'm on a budget, but I hear there is more to get the bike working right with the stock equipment than previous models.

I still have my Bitubo shock which I likely will have to change the valving in to work with the G5, then the next step will be Bitubo gas cartridge kit.

Got to start saving ££££

Btw, how are you liking your adjustable yokes (triple clamps)?
09-19-2017 07:35 AM
Carlos76
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Arghh View Post
Can you ask them what they felt was wrong with the stock front units.
By the way, you quote the x seconds from lap record thing quite a bit, but I don't think that is that useful considering the wide variety of track configurations and riding styles that exist.
Case in point...James Ellison set the fastest ever two wheeled lap around Brands Hatch Indy circuit this year in British Superbikes, doing a 45.097s - crash.net.
Yet even rookies on stock 1000s are doing high 50s around there.
Yes, "x seconds off lap record" is bad measurement. Best we compare to Superstock1000 bikes where qualifying normative is usually 107% to 110% of the winner of qualifying time. 110% makes only +5s in Brands Hatch, but in Brno +12s!
Three years back my pace was at 112% and I could not make any difference between running Gen4 stock forks and Ktech cart. At 110% started a little to feel what front end is doing. Now my pace is 107% and I'm just starting to understand what the term "front end feel" maybe really means, while my corner entry and trail braking still sucks.
I think gen5 stock forks are easily sufficent unil some 109% pace. Boys I meantioned (running Andreani) are at 105%, I know their tuner and he said simply that piston kit makes it "race oriented fork" (whatever it means), but more importantly he makes forks to use all avaliable stroke because with stock settings gen5 fork rides too high and does not "point the nose well" mid corner. I quess it likes to drive little wide because of that, I'm not an expert.
09-19-2017 05:34 AM
10Arghh
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51-05 View Post
Argh... When you honestly feel that this suspension is holding you back, thats when you might consider dropping the big dollars..

I talked to several respected (known racers) and suspension pro's.. Before deciding on my ZX. They're the ones who pointed out just how good the new stockers are. Which pushed me over to the ZX paddock.. Including the rear shock, although not as good as the front... Also from your post's.. It sounds as if You haven't even rode one yet let alone set up for you?? Might I suggest you try it first..

RC
You're right I haven't...I haven't bought the gen 5 yet...I only sat on one the other day :) I'm just mentally adding up the £££ signs for all the bits I might need, but there is a lot to do before that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos76 View Post
I think fork cartridges are needed if pace gets below 8s from lap record. Unlike with gen4 forks, the gen5 benefits from a piston kit (I know two slow racers who say that forks are perfect for them with Andreani kit).
Can you ask them what they felt was wrong with the stock front units.

By the way, you quote the x seconds from lap record thing quite a bit, but I don't think that is that useful considering the wide variety of track configurations and riding styles that exist.

Case in point...James Ellison set the fastest ever two wheeled lap around Brands Hatch Indy circuit this year in British Superbikes, doing a 45.097s - crash.net.

Yet even rookies on stock 1000s are doing high 50s around there.
09-18-2017 10:44 PM
Carlos76 Don't waste time and money racing stock shock, a properly dialed aftermarket shock gives you grip, confidence, safety, tyre life, serviceability.
I think fork cartridges are needed if pace gets below 8s from lap record. Unlike with gen4 forks, the gen5 benefits from a piston kit (I know two slow racers who say that forks are perfect for them with Andreani kit).
09-18-2017 08:45 PM
RC51-05 Argh... When you honestly feel that this suspension is holding you back, thats when you might consider dropping the big dollars..

I talked to several respected (known racers) and suspension pro's.. Before deciding on my ZX. They're the ones who pointed out just how good the new stockers are. Which pushed me over to the ZX paddock.. Including the rear shock, although not as good as the front... Also from your post's.. It sounds as if You haven't even rode one yet let alone set up for you?? Might I suggest you try it first..

RC
09-18-2017 07:22 PM
10Arghh Thanks for the comments.

I will use an aftermarket rear shock for now and see how I go before spending on the front.

The bike I'm looking at has Ktech springs sprung for my weight, so there is that.

Does anyone that races on a budget with the stock front suspension have any real world experience in use?

I have seen some competitive lap times from some that use stock, but I guess the real question is how hard they would have had to push to achieve them compared to say if they had used a quality cartridge kit.
09-18-2017 12:07 AM
nakedinseattle front springs need to be stiffer than for your weight, rear spring will need an upgrade to your proper weight, front forks will need valves. are you racing to win, going for a #1 plate or $, or just having a good time? got a few grand to drop into it? if you're racing for fun, don't waste your money, just enjoy the stock setup. to push it, you need to upgrade it. doesn't matter what bike you're on.
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