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Sprocket change or OEM?

Gen 5: 2016-20 
37K views 63 replies 25 participants last post by  metalmechanic9 
#1 ·
Was picking up a set of chain and sprockets for my Gen 5. Had a few queries on them so looking for some help:

1. Should I go for -1/+2 or -1/+1 or keep the sprocketing stock? I do find the bike takes its own sweet time to rev up till the powerband and this at times is a killjoy at the racetrack. Does a -1/+1 make sense or a +2 is the bare minimum to get any noticeable difference? What would be the impact on the top end with a +1 or a +2 at the rear?

2. Massively confused on whether to go for a 520 conversion or 525? Steel sprockets or Aluminium ones?

I am leaning towards Renthal for sprockets and DID for chain. My usage is a mix of weekend riding and trackdays.

Thank you
 
#2 ·
This is a completely subjective topic that no one can answer over the internet. It completely depends on what YOU like. Some people like -1/+1, others swear -1/+2, and others still like just +1 or +2 on the back. YOU have to try different combinations to see what YOU like in the riding conditions that YOU do and that make sense for YOU and YOUR bike.

Same goes with a 520 or 525 conversion. If you're that conflicted about it, stick with the 525 stock size. Aluminum on the rear if you don't mind changing sprockets more often. Steel if you want to put it on and basically forget about it.
 
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#28 ·
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This hits the nail on the head. I have no clue why this "-1+2" bullshit has become the norm for pretty much every bike out there, but it's gotta stop. :lol:

You will find most street riders gear down their bikes because they do nothing but putt around on the road with them, so when 85% of your riding consists of going the speed limit (that you can do in 1st gear), yes, shorter gearing is a left handed way of "waking up" the bike.

Once you get to be a fast track day dude/racer, you'll find most people sticking pretty close to factory gearing.
 
#3 ·
-1 +2 will feel like a complete different bike. Thats what i run and love it. cant keep the front down 1-3. chain size kinda depends on what youre using it for? street or drag bike just run a 525, track bike run 520. like sky dork said run steel if you want to put it on and forget about it.
 
#4 ·
:+1: -1 in the front +2 in the rear.. i went 520 on the chain and aluminum on the rear sprocket.. i figure why not save all the weight you can. Just be prepared for that front sprocket if you do it yourself.. thing is a mother#$%@er to get off. :grin2:
 

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#5 ·
Thanks guys. Read up on a lot of threads on the forum in the meantime on the subject.

Will read up a bit more and then decide between going either (stock/+1) or (-1/+1) considering I need to strike the right balance between acceleration and top end. Maybe I will just order a stock front, a -1 front and a +1 rear and swap the fronts if I dont like one particular combination. The +1 on the rear is sure go ahead.

Read up on the different threads and the conversion factors between the sprockets. This is why I love this forum!

Also checked out gearingcommander.com but not very convinced on the top end speeds being projected in the algorithms. I frankly believe the actual difference is better felt and calculated with actual riding.

Just wanted feedback from folks who have possibly tried both stock/+1 and -1/+1. Will make decision making a lot easier.

Have decided to stick to the 525 pitch and steel sprockets as I dont want to keep changing sprockets too often. Thinking of going with Vortex steel sprockets (unless any of you have had a bad experience with vortex). Will get to the 520 and all aluminium conversion if I start racing. Till then 525 FTW.

A buddy who runs a -1/+2 on his 08 R1 suggested that I prepare myself for a lower gas mileage (doesnt matter too much) and a 10-15% more tyre wear with a -1/+2.
 
#6 ·
Then there are guys like me who prefer +2 rear only so the change is not too aggressive and it shortens the wheelbase to help with turn-in slightly. Plus the rear sprocket is much easier to change. This is essentially the same as going -1F, but with the advantages I just mention.

Gearingcommander.com speeds are theoretical based on the internal/external gearing. It's easy to calculate that stuff and pretty accurate*. But it doesn't take into account aerodynamic drag and torque - which means that those speed calculations are only accurate IF (and only if) the motor has enough power to get you to the RPM stated in the utility. I wouldn't focus at the top speeds listed, but rather the drop in MPH and rise in RPM based on difference between gearing combinations.
 
#11 ·
Sorry to go off topic OP

So I just ran into this the other day. So if the ECU is flashed and the top speed limiter is disabled, gearingcommander.com says 6th gear at 13k rpm you will be doing 187 which is what my speedo read. Although if you look at there gearing top speed table with 49 different combinations it states a top speed of 168 mph. I believe I must be missing or not understanding the graph correctly. If anyone can chime in I would appreciate it.
 
#16 ·
I just went down one tooth on the front as I found the stock gearing to be stupid tall... particularly for the road. Had to do the same on an RSV4 I just came off, but have never felt the urge to mess with the gearing on the older generation litre bikes.

I wouldn't say it completely transformed the bike, but it now has a little more pump in 1st and 2nd. I'm not sure what type of roads you are riding, but I do feel that I would want to avoid losing any more top end on my bike. Don't care what the theoretical top speeds are pre/post dropping one tooth on the front... I can just feel a bit more of a hole once speeds start getting around the low 200's... which is perfect for where/how I ride at the moment.

Didn't feel the need to go 520. I mean, its not like I'm chasing tens of seconds.
 
#17 ·
Thanks. My riding is 50% highway riding on weekends and 50% trackdays. I do not take the bike out in the town unless I am going to the service center.

For my street riding I dont want to lose too much top end. I need the top end to still be upwards of 185 mph. For my track days I need better drive out of corners which the stock gearing is horrible at. By the time I come into the powerband currently I have already lost precious seconds in the lap.

I am not considering a -1/+2 as it will be an overkill for my needs.

Presently evaluating the +2R (thanks Skydork for the feedback) vs the -1F vs the -1/+1. Using gearingcommander for a comparitive analysis of the three combinations.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Thanks everyone for the inputs and suggestions.

Skydork, thanks for your feedback. Have decided to go for the +2R for now. Incase I still feel the need for it will add a -1 later for the trackday use. For now going for the Vortex Steel sprockets (17/41) and EK 3D chain (120 links option) all in 525 pitch.

As per gearingcommander, a +2R vs stock setup will still keep the top end at 299.8 kmph which is basically no love lost for me since my bike is still restricted to the 299 top speed. Like someone suggested on another thread, a 2+ on the rear means a bump up in the rpm by about 500 rpms which shouldnt be too much of a hit on the gas mileage either. Seems like a win-win. :)
 
#20 ·
I use gearingcommander to compare previous bikes I've had versus what I have now. My first sportbike was a 2008 cbr1000rr which was +3. I compared it to my gen4 and determined +2 was about the same and loved that gearing. Gen5 gears 2-6 have been changed and are more aggressive than Gen4 gearing. For example Gen5 stock gearing 3rd gear is equal to Gen4 3rd gear -1+2. I like the stock gearing but will try +1 just because I have it hanging on the wall. My advise is to use gearingcommander to compare what you had before versus what you have now.
 
#21 ·
With metzler rr on back go 16 on front and see how the 39 feels. If 39 feels off then go one higher Vortex on back and test. I think oem one higher would work but haven't tested that yet. Front go bridgestone rs10 G. It V's way slow for me. If you don't use met rr rear then just go up on the rear sprocket until you find what you like.
 
#22 ·
Hi Scout. Thanks for the suggestion. I oscillate between RS10s and Metz M7s on the track. Have decided to go ahead with a +2R and a stock front for now. Incase it acts up then will go for a -1F and stock rear as suggested.
 
#23 ·
I dropped 1 tooth on the CS and it made a world of difference. I would consider going up 1 in the rear, but it would be overkill. Just my opinion, but the bike is damn fast as is. The -1 CS was what it needed for the lack of low end torque the bike has stock.
 
#31 ·
Based on feedback from a few of the guys who have been racing these, plus talking to Ken Hill (who is familiar with my riding style), I decided to start with -1, +1. I'll probably have to get different set ups for the different tracks once I get going on the bike, but until then this seemed like a good place to start. Did the 520 conversion, but steel for both.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Our tracks require it, not because I'm slow and can't carry corner speed but because the track is slow and if you run stock gearing you'll be using 1st-3rd gear and maybe touching 4th. You'll get left behind out of corners because you'll be at 4,000rpm in 2nd. Same as I can't run the same shock/fork springs at every track. If you want to be competitive with the top guys you need to change things and make the bike work. We had a guy run +1f (18) and not sure the rear, at Mosport last year. He lost to Corti by milliseconds.

I'll say it again, every track is different and why I carry 3 fronts, 5 rears, and two chains.

On the street who's carrying huge corner speed anyway?
 
#45 ·
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the Gen 5 gearing is way too long, I went with a -1/+1 Renthal Sprockets, they should be here any day now, will install them and report back. Keeping the OEM chain for now as it barely has 600 km's on it.
 
#51 ·
Good read. So, keeping things simple; 2017 ZX-10RR, stock gearing. 17F/39R.

I understand many say -1 Front to start. But, what will an addition of +1, +2, or +3 Rear with stock 17T Front achieve in RPMs?

For example, if 2nd Gear @ 60 MPH were 7000 RPMs, what would each (+ Rear) achieve?

+1 Rear > An additional 250 RPMs = 7250 RPMs?
+2 Rear > An additional 500 RPMs = 7500 RPMs?
+3 Rear > An additional 750 RPMs = 7750 RPMs?

I read somewhere that said "a +2 Rear is the same as -1 Front" (but shortens the wheelbase).

So would -1 Front or +2 Rear be "about" the same (about a 500 RPM shift) regardless which option you chose?

So then, realistically, a 16T Front (About 500 RPMs) and +1 Rear (250 RPMs) should be "about" 750 RPMs combined?

Just trying to understand the pattern of RPM shifts as the changes go up:

-1 Front / Stock Rear (+500 RPMs) ?
+2 Rear / Stock Front (+500 RPMs) ?
-1 Front / +1 Rear (+750 RPMs) ?
-1 Front / +2 Rear (+1000 RPMs) ?
 
#52 ·
500rpms to what? 60mph in 6th gear?

Not sure if this is true, but the sprocket changes do multiply the reduction in each gear. You should see a higher rpm change in the higher gears (haven't checked)

(Running - 1/+1. With it, the ZX10-R feels like it has the gearbox of a 600cc. Really cool on track, OK on the streets if you are mainly running narrow twisties. I may change it back to - 1/0 when the next tire change is in order)
 
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