Geometry on the 2016 ZX10r - Page 3 - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #21 of 65 Old 02-02-2016, 11:22 AM
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It boggles my mind that this can be figured out in a matter of weeks in the aftermarket, yet the factory engineers can't work it out over the past few years. You think it's a street vs track compromise?
I am sure that the comment this bike can be made to handle like a 600 is stretching things just a little bit. Maybe a lot.

Yes, it's a street vs. track compromise. But the bike will never handle anything like a 600 no matter what anyone does. 600s can get away with 23 degrees of rake and sub-100mm trail numbers, wheelbase in the sub-54" range.

Try those numbers on a bike with 200 rwhp and see what happens.

MotoGP bikes have long wheelbase, lots of rake and trail. They cannot turn with a Moto2 bike (600cc) let alone a Moto3 machine.

Literbikes are literbikes, 600s are 600s. Each can be taken to a certain limit based on design, materials, components, and rider.

It's the sheer HP and high speeds of the literbike that make it thrilling but those also limit cornering speeds and braking performance.

The ZX-10R is a literbike AND a streetbike so we can see where that puts it, squarely in the middle of a huge compromise.
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post #22 of 65 Old 02-02-2016, 04:44 PM
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Poo... Keep that front wheel up off the pavement, toss the bike like a dirt bike, and rear wheel steer...

For tight twisty back road bash... narrower, higher profile rear tire, quickens the beast..
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post #23 of 65 Old 02-03-2016, 04:04 PM
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Can I fit my gen 4 Ohlins Mechatronic on the new scooter?


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post #24 of 65 Old 02-03-2016, 09:04 PM
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Can I fit my gen 4 Ohlins Mechatronic on the new scooter?
Couple people have said the shock will fit mechanically. No word on the plugs to ecu though

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post #25 of 65 Old 02-04-2016, 04:01 AM
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I understand what LDH and White Fang are saying about the manufacturer essentially dumbing down the bike for street sales. Still I like what Animal said. It does seem that starting with basic good chassis geometry would only make sense. I mean what better way to squelch chassis issues than to just make it right from the bones up to start with? Besides didn't Kawi already build "a death trap motorcycle that is unstable"? Gen 1 right?
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post #26 of 65 Old 02-04-2016, 10:25 AM
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I understand what LDH and White Fang are saying about the manufacturer essentially dumbing down the bike for street sales. Still I like what Animal said. It does seem that starting with basic good chassis geometry would only make sense. I mean what better way to squelch chassis issues than to just make it right from the bones up to start with? Besides didn't Kawi already build "a death trap motorcycle that is unstable"? Gen 1 right?

That is what they have done. Everything on a motorcycle is a compromise. Do you want stability or do you want agility, do you want to be able to hit your braking marker on a dime every single time you trailbrake into the turn or do you want that perfect drive out that lets you use all the throttle can offer, do you want almost impossible levels of rear traction or do you want to have time to react to a rear wheel slide when the tire does break loose under power because you can pick one of the two, but to get both you will have to settle for a compromise and that is what you have here and on every other cutting edge sportbike made by major players.

Again the real bottom line is they are selling a streetbike built to a price point with street tires on it for use on public roads. If they were marketing it as a push start racebike for track only use then I might be a little more vocal as to why it wants to run me wide coming out of every turn, but even then every rider still has to set-up even the best handling bikes for their own riding style, how much they lean off the bike, how upright they force the bike before getting on the gas, the size of the tires not just in diameter, but how much they compress while riding on the edge etc There is so much to take into consideration that there is no way a one size fits all approach would ever work. Lastly when all else fails it is up to the rider to adjust their way of riding the bike to make up for whatever the chassis lacks. That to me is the hardest part of test riding motorcycles. I am excellent at setting bikes up to handle properly which lets the bike work with me instead of against me, but when I get the best possible handling out of the parts I have to work with then at that point I don't like having to over-ride them to force them to do something they don't naturally want to do. It puts me outside my comfort zone and it shows.
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post #27 of 65 Old 02-04-2016, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by or10r View Post
I understand what LDH and White Fang are saying about the manufacturer essentially dumbing down the bike for street sales. Still I like what Animal said. It does seem that starting with basic good chassis geometry would only make sense. I mean what better way to squelch chassis issues than to just make it right from the bones up to start with? Besides didn't Kawi already build "a death trap motorcycle that is unstable"? Gen 1 right?
It doesn't really cost any more to make a bike with one geometry setup as another once you have the research done. And KHI certainly has that sorted out. So the bike is in no way "dumbed down".

I thought about this last night for five seconds and realized that this thread is based on one measurement session and ZERO test-riding of the bike.

So we have someone, most likely Chicken Little, proclaiming the bike is poorly-sorted and badly set-up from the factory, just by measuring it and claiming they've got all the answers.

Sorry folks but as I said before, I was using Computrack in the late 1990's and after, and know what it is all about.

We can't just "shoot" a bike and then say, "Oh, well, Kawasaki got this all wrong, you'd better change this, that, and the other and then have us measure it a few more times but WOW, the bike is WAY off from where it ought to be."

That's laughable.

The bike has essentially the same geometry as the Gen 5, with a longer wheelbase and slightly longer swingarm and revised riding position to put the rider more over the front tire -- that last is a very good thing.

Forget all these numbers and measurements as being predictive of anything, at least as assessed by this outfit.

Without an exhaustive test session with a capable rider, we don't know a thing.

Also think about the newest R1's numbers, much shorter wheelbase, tighter rake/trail numbers, yet even that bike hardly lapped faster at WSIR than the Gen 4 with Jason Pridmore at the controls. And the Gen 4 had higher mid-corner speeds and a quicker roll rate, but better stability.

MotoGP bikes have rake/trail numbers even MORE conservative than the Gen 4 and 5, and LONG wheelbases and swingarms. They turn pretty good.

Oh yeah, KHI did build a "a death trap motorcycle that is unstable". It was the H2 Mach IV!
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Last edited by White Fang; 02-04-2016 at 11:30 AM.
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post #28 of 65 Old 02-04-2016, 11:41 AM
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The new wheelbase is much longer at the swing arm length. I can confirm 2 additional links are needed on the chain.
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post #29 of 65 Old 02-04-2016, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by White Fang View Post
It doesn't really cost any more to make a bike with one geometry setup as another once you have the research done. And KHI certainly has that sorted out. So the bike is in no way "dumbed down".

I thought about this last night for five seconds and realized that this thread is based on one measurement session and ZERO test-riding of the bike.

So we have someone, most likely Chicken Little, proclaiming the bike is poorly-sorted and badly set-up from the factory, just by measuring it and claiming they've got all the answers.

Sorry folks but as I said before, I was using Computrack in the late 1990's and after, and know what it is all about.

We can't just "shoot" a bike and then say, "Oh, well, Kawasaki got this all wrong, you'd better change this, that, and the other and then have us measure it a few more times but WOW, the bike is WAY off from where it ought to be."

That's laughable.

The bike has essentially the same geometry as the Gen 5, with a longer wheelbase and slightly longer swingarm and revised riding position to put the rider more over the front tire -- that last is a very good thing.

Forget all these numbers and measurements as being predictive of anything, at least as assessed by this outfit.

Without an exhaustive test session with a capable rider, we don't know a thing.

Also think about the newest R1's numbers, much shorter wheelbase, tighter rake/trail numbers, yet even that bike hardly lapped faster at WSIR than the Gen 4 with Jason Pridmore at the controls. And the Gen 4 had higher mid-corner speeds and a quicker roll rate, but better stability.

MotoGP bikes have rake/trail numbers even MORE conservative than the Gen 4 and 5, and LONG wheelbases and swingarms. They turn pretty good.

Oh yeah, KHI did build a "a death trap motorcycle that is unstable". It was the H2 Mach IV!
Boy, I guess you just have ALL the answers.
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post #30 of 65 Old 02-04-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman69 View Post
The new wheelbase is much longer at the swing arm length. I can confirm 2 additional links are needed on the chain.
Are you going to be racing the gen 5 next season Justin?

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