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New Turbo Project

Gen 2: 2006-07 
44K views 241 replies 37 participants last post by  SpazOnaZX 
#1 · (Edited)
...aka: The Baller on a Budget Build :badteeth:

Well, this project is starting to roll, so I'll post up progress as I go along. The short term goal is to have a 10psi, pump gas, water/meth injected set-up on a stock motor until something breaks, and then put in the mildly built (pistons, rods, clutch, valve springs/retainers) spare motor and run 16ish psi... again on pump gas and water/meth injection.

Being that I'm a broke-ass, I'm using my old supercharged bike as a base platform. It already has the fuel system and electronics to support 10psi... all I really have to do is modify the intake plenum, build a proper turbo exhaust, and clean up the look of the bike... I'll actually have my friend/airbrush artist paint the bike this time around. For the time being I do plan on taking and inch or two out of the ride height and going to a single side mount/traditional exhaust pipe....... no plans to stretch it or put an arm on it as of yet. Pictures to follow.... :)
 
#2 · (Edited)
Oil filter relocation

After looking at my turbo, I decided that the stock oil filter placement wasn't going to work. Even if I wasn't a cheap ass, no one really makes a proper relocation kit for the 2nd gen.... so we fired up the machines and made a remote kit out of the stock pieces. Using good AN fittings, Aeroquip heavy duty push-loc hose, and using a spare housing the whole thing ended up being less than 100 bucks to modify. :)
 

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#3 ·
Turbo placement

...I just happened to have a Disco Potato with a .86 A/R turbine housing laying around, so it fit nicely with the HP & budget requirements of the build. I'm using schedule 40 stainless to build a manifold this time, and using individual ports/runners instead of the one piece flange I tried on a different bike. The one piece flange was just a PITA to work around, heavy, and had sealing issues on the other bike. The flanges were cut on a CNC plasma and hand finished to fit the pipes nice 'n tight. Here are some picks of the snail where it's going to live in relation to the engine. With the very short runners and thermal barrier coating, I'm shooting for having full boost threshold at or below 5.5K rpm. :) Another great benefit is the fact that the turbo is high enough to not need a scavenge pump for the oil return, even with the radiator in the stock position & size. :biggrin:
 

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#7 · (Edited)
Nope, just going to run it on a Hobbs switch @ about 5psi. Progressive controllers are junk when you're trying to use them to pulse a motor. I'm actually going to change to these guy's set-up soon: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html . Seriously, read that page and learn some really, really good stuff about AI.

I'd like to ditch the power commander at some point and switch to better management. The Microsquirt is a little over my head at this point, though I'm sure I could figure it out if I had a good starting point. Really, I'm just trying to keep cost down as much as I can, and the powercommander stuff works, even if it is clunky. I may retrofit the PCV, but having to buy ANOTHER ignition module is holding me back from doing that. At that much I could almost get and FI/C.

-Op- said:
Oh damn this should be awesome. Whatre you doing with the rotrex?
It's probably going to sit in my garage until something comes along that seems like a bad idea to put it on. Maybe a quad or a cart or something.... who knows. :) I'd sell it all relatively cheap, but I doubt anyone would really buy it.
 
#6 ·
Oh damn this should be awesome. Whatre you doing with the rotrex?
 
#11 ·
Hrm, that's interesting news. I haven't called them yet... was going to hit them up after tax time. We'll see on that one I guess. :) Worse come to worse, I'll mix up some goddamned rocket fuel to run it until I can engineer a proper AI system.

Power? Who knows? :) At 16 psi I've seen figures around the 300whp mark on most dyno's for 2nd gens. Assuming a baseline of 150whp, you could guesstimate 200ish @ 5 psi, 250 at 10psi, and 300 at 16psi. Those are just rough guesstimates, but it's good enough to plan for supporting mods.
 
#13 ·
Turbocharging is an addiction... it makes a crack habit feel like a mild craving for something salty.

I'm not going to run the oil cooler. Between it being remote, away from the header, exposed to good airflow, and using good sythetic oil I think it will be ok. Time will tell.

The supercharger will sit in my garage until I can find something fun to put that on or someone offers me a fair amount of money for it.
 
#15 ·
All of the oil lines to the filter are -8AN. The oil feed to the turbo is -3AN, and I'll most likely use -6AN for the oil drain.

Fairing went out for paint & airbrush work last week (should be -awesome- looking, heehe), and about half the manifold is mocked up at this point. My buddy wants to try a few tricks welding this one, and I'm waiting on him to get back in town this week. He's a -much- better welder than I am, so I'm game to let him have a go at it. :)
 
#19 · (Edited)
We'll see. But I already know the finished product works really, really well..... did it once on my concours already. ;) But I'll happily post datalogs on boost vs rpm and such once I get there.

But with that said, there is a space constraint to work in here. With the turbo being high enough to gravity drain AND leave the stock radiator in the stock position, I pretty much have to do it this way. Other people may have an easier time doing in from the bottom up, but this turns out pretty nice in the end. :) I know it looks rough there, but the finished pieces will fit better. It's really, really hard to get 4 1.25" pimaries to collect in a straight line into a t-25 flange. lay it out an you'll see what I mean. :)
 
#21 ·
Looks pretty. :thumbsup: Is that something you built or tested by chance? Construction material? How well does it work? I love sharing info. :)

It's always neat to see how things are mocked up VS how they look as a final piece... hopefully my stuff looks as pretty in the end as it is functional. I have an advantage in that I'm not trying to make money on this, it's just my spare time invested in learning how to do this on my own. It may take longer to get to the finished project, but I get to say that -I- made it, and I get to learn some good stuff in the process. :beer:
 
#22 ·
PS That #1 header in the picture collects way off the edge of the interior opening of that t-25 flange, and that runner especially is starting to collect parallel to the flange. We're trying to get the runners in this on to collect more perpendicular to the flange to promote better flow.... again, it's an experiment on a budget. I'm anxious to see how well it works.
 
#24 ·
Well, it's in position. :biggrin: Now comes the fun part of working on all the aux plumbing before it goes off for coating. Going to have to alter the radiator fan bracket and lower mount a bit to clear the #4, but I think it's worth it to get the snail high enough to gravity drain... the shaft centerline is about 2" above oil level at the moment.......... hopefully that's good enough. :badteeth:
 

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#25 · (Edited)
How to keep flanges from cracking: Good root/fusion pass (BACK-PURGE!), clean, fill pass, clean, and a nice weave to finish it up. Found out the hard way before that single pass welding on the flanges supporting all that weight don't last all that long. :badteeth:
 

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#26 ·
How to keep flanges from cracking: Good root/fusion pass (BACK-PURGE!), clean, fill pass, clean, and a nice weave to finish it up. Found out the hard way before that single pass welding on the flanges supporting all that weight way don't last all that long. :badteeth:
Fucking nuts! Damn fine looking job there man. Looks like youve taken some time with that badboy. The tools you have access to is the stuff of most mens wet dreams. Keep up the good work.
 
#28 ·
Lots of work with porting bits is what it looks like. :) I'll snap some shots of it when it gets back from coating. But the backpurging keeps the weld looking pretty clean on the inside with good penetration. It's amazing the difference it makes.
 
#29 ·
I wish I had half the talent and knowledge you do on this.
 
#30 ·
I'm not quite the welder that my friend is on steel, and he did the welding/fitting on this one. If I practice it weekly I can get there, but it really is a perishible skill. As far as the knowledge goes, READ BOOKS. ;) Then go break shit and scare the hell outta yourself trying to apply it, heheh. Seriously though, if you can ever find a tuner or builder in the game that will let you pay them for their time and to show/explain stuff to you, it's worth every penny. That's the spirit of DIY in a nutshell.... sometimes it's not the cheapest or fastest way to knowledge, but it sure is the most comprehensive. Don't let people discourage you with "Guy X does it better like this" or "That's ugly" kind of talk, just try to do a little better each time you do it, and learn from mistakes (I have a few really nice ashtrays, and I don't even smoke....). Probably one of my favorite quotes was from RB Racing: "Just because someone goes fast doesn't mean you should do whatever you think they did. This path assumes they knew what they were doing, which isn't necessarily the case. Take this path and you will be guaranteed second place.". Hell, their whole "Racing Secrets" page is right on point http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/secrets.htm
 
#31 ·
Mini-Update:

This shit is rapidly escalating out of the "budget" build IMO, but that's life I guess. Ordered a set of Crower rods and SS exhaust valves; but the ARP main stud kit, APE Ti retainers & spring kit arrived a few days ago. Crower apparently had NO inventory on hand, so they are giving me a 4-week ETA on the rods. Ouch. Well, I'll at least get it running on the stock motor. I'm looking into finding a bare head that I can build off the bike in the mean time, so I can have the "built" motor fully assembled and ready to drop in when the time comes (my other head has a freeze crack in it, and the one I bought from a member has a galled up cam journal. Boo Hoo).

Otherwise, parts are off to the coaters and it's just a waiting game for more parts to come in..........
 
#35 ·
'nother mini-update

So, 'tis the season for frustration. Swaintech parts are still not here... apartently they only send out exhaust coatings once a month and I just missed a batch when I sent mine in. Pistons are done, but wating on the snail/header. For 7 weeks waiting, their shit had better look good. Rods are still en route, according to Dwayne/Crower I should see them in a week or two... they told him 4 weeks to make a set as they had no inventory on hand. Water/Meth kit from RB racing is still MIA. I did call them 3 weeks after putting in an order and the nice lady did tell me, "Yea we got your order, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet". From their webpage and reviews I know that's how they do buisness, so I'm trying not to get anxious about that.

More piss-poor news: Local machinist didn't have a pilot or seat cutter small enough to work on my head, so I sent it off to APE yesterday for the valve job (decided to bite the bullet and get SS exhaust valves). They tell me 4 weeks for a turn around. I'm starting to think this is the industry standard wait time for parts & services. Got a used head to build at a good price, but of course it had a flat lobe on the intake cam. :mod_smilie_hey_you:

As far as good news goes: Got a 3rd Gen intake cam from a member here at least, and it looks good. I'm toying with the idea of running 2 intake cams, but I'm going to do some more research first (thoughts and suggestions welcome here...). Stand alone should be in the mail today or tomorrow, that's going to be fun. I'll probably fire the bike up NA once I get that installed to dial everything in, and then just await the turbo parts/AI injection stuff last.

God I hate the waiting game.
 
#39 ·
So, 'tis the season for frustration. Swaintech parts are still not here... apartently they only send out exhaust coatings once a month and I just missed a batch when I sent mine in. Pistons are done, but wating on the snail/header. For 7 weeks waiting, their shit had better look good. Rods are still en route, according to Dwayne/Crower I should see them in a week or two... they told him 4 weeks to make a set as they had no inventory on hand. Water/Meth kit from RB racing is still MIA. I did call them 3 weeks after putting in an order and the nice lady did tell me, "Yea we got your order, but he hasn't gotten around to it yet". From their webpage and reviews I know that's how they do buisness, so I'm trying not to get anxious about that.

More piss-poor news: Local machinist didn't have a pilot or seat cutter small enough to work on my head, so I sent it off to APE yesterday for the valve job (decided to bite the bullet and get SS exhaust valves). They tell me 4 weeks for a turn around. I'm starting to think this is the industry standard wait time for parts & services. Got a used head to build at a good price, but of course it had a flat lobe on the intake cam. :mod_smilie_hey_you:

As far as good news goes: Got a 3rd Gen intake cam from a member here at least, and it looks good. I'm toying with the idea of running 2 intake cams, but I'm going to do some more research first (thoughts and suggestions welcome here...). Stand alone should be in the mail today or tomorrow, that's going to be fun. I'll probably fire the bike up NA once I get that installed to dial everything in, and then just await the turbo parts/AI injection stuff last.

God I hate the waiting game.
I feel your pain man. I spun a rod bearing at the end of last year so of course the crank needed a little attention and off to Marine it goes. The 4 week initial estimate was changed to 5 as soon as it was shipped, and we are now over 6 weeks and no crank :(

I also just talked to APE this week about getting a set of 25.5mm Gen1/Gen2 stainless exhaust valves cut down to 24.5mm (no one makes them for the Gen3). Last minute decision, and I still haven't heard back on the lead time. They said it would be a week before the valves even came in to be cut. So make for making the start of race season.
 
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