Gen 5: 2016 -> Gen 5 Ignition timing - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Gen 5 Ignition timing

Is it finally clear whatís the best ignition timing for the Gen 5?
Iíve read that stock timing is the best, but that also some tuners adjusted and got hp gains. So this is confusing af!
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 03:16 PM
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Literally every bike is different and some like different amounts in different places.
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 03:29 PM
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The GEN 5 ignition isn't retarded like the GEN 4 is. If you're tuning with a butt dyno, just leave the stock values alone
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. But thereís got to be at least a patern or a general rule on the Gen 5 ignition, thereís a lot of companies selling reflash and offering ignition timing adjustments.
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 05:30 PM
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Nope. It varies based on the bike and the bikes mods and possibly elevation. Some guys see that you need to retard timing and some people have had good luck adding a few degrees. It depends on the bike.
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post #6 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Victors View Post
Nope. It varies based on the bike and the bikes mods and possibly elevation. Some guys see that you need to retard timing and some people have had good luck adding a few degrees. It depends on the bike.
Thanks
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victors View Post
Nope. It varies based on the bike and the bikes mods and possibly elevation. Some guys see that you need to retard timing and some people have had good luck adding a few degrees. It depends on the bike.
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Literally every bike is different and some like different amounts in different places.
These two points x 100.

Every bike will respond to timing maps differently. Motors respond differently to AFR, timing, modifications, fuel, etc. Just throwing or pulling points of timing based on what such and such says isn't going to do anything for you. On my personal gen 5, I have timing added and pulled - on others bikes I have no timing added period while I have timing taken out on others. Every bike will respond differently.

Perfect example; Rickey Gadson called me one day when he was working on a gen 5 for someone he was working with. I said, I don't want to give you my timing maps simply because there is such a variation bike to bike based on the several I have worked with. He had tuned the bike to make peak power across the RPM range at a bunch of different throttle positions by AFR. He was on me and on me so I finally gave in and said fine, I will send it to you, but it is on you if the motor pops :D Sent him my timing map from my personal bike and he plugged it in - bike instantly lost power. What that says is the timing is too far advanced and beyond MBT for his setup and actually predetonating (knocking). If you were to look up some of the maps made by the N/A guys that are running 9/10s blasts down in Florida, they are actually running stock timing maps; some even less than stock. More timing =/= More Power

Timing is one of those things that are best set on the dyno (or with a rear wheel torque cell and data logger) so you can see the actual output and observe power output compared to timing adjustments to determine MBT. Just doing it by feel or by what someone says is an express ticket to heart break. This is often why you will see canned flashes vary so much in power output from two bikes using the same canned flash - 1) The AFR is almost certainly off if the fueling was adjusted in the ECU 2) The bike does not like the timing map if adjusted in the ECU. Every bike will respond to tuning parameter changes differently even if those two bikes have identical modifications. This cannot be stated enough.

Additionally, like Bun1t said, the 5th gen is not retarded in the timing department like the 4th gen was (along with STP restrictions). So if you're not making timing adjustments on the dyno for your motor, your mods and your fuel - things will not go well. Best to keep them stock or if you're making pulls on a drag strip, advance them slowly and look at data logs (if equipped with a data logger) and compare your time/speed between runs. If you start to advance it too far and past MBT, you will see your speed and times come down; dollars to doughnuts if you back it off some, you'll see your time/speed come back up.
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX10RArcher View Post
These two points x 100.

Every bike will respond to timing maps differently. Motors respond differently to AFR, timing, modifications, fuel, etc. Just throwing or pulling points of timing based on what such and such says isn't going to do anything for you. On my personal gen 5, I have timing added and pulled - on others bikes I have no timing added period while I have timing taken out on others. Every bike will respond differently.

Perfect example; Rickey Gadson called me one day when he was working on a gen 5 for someone he was working with. I said, I don't want to give you my timing maps simply because there is such a variation bike to bike based on the several I have worked with. He had tuned the bike to make peak power across the RPM range at a bunch of different throttle positions by AFR. He was on me and on me so I finally gave in and said fine, I will send it to you, but it is on you if the motor pops :D Sent him my timing map from my personal bike and he plugged it in - bike instantly lost power. What that says is the timing is too far advanced and beyond MBT for his setup and actually predetonating (knocking). If you were to look up some of the maps made by the N/A guys that are running 9/10s blasts down in Florida, they are actually running stock timing maps; some even less than stock. More timing =/= More Power

Timing is one of those things that are best set on the dyno (or with a rear wheel torque cell and data logger) so you can see the actual output and observe power output compared to timing adjustments to determine MBT. Just doing it by feel or by what someone says is an express ticket to heart break. This is often why you will see canned flashes vary so much in power output from two bikes using the same canned flash - 1) The AFR is almost certainly off if the fueling was adjusted in the ECU 2) The bike does not like the timing map if adjusted in the ECU. Every bike will respond to tuning parameter changes differently even if those two bikes have identical modifications. This cannot be stated enough.

Additionally, like Bun1t said, the 5th gen is not retarded in the timing department like the 4th gen was (along with STP restrictions). So if you're not making timing adjustments on the dyno for your motor, your mods and your fuel - things will not go well. Best to keep them stock or if you're making pulls on a drag strip, advance them slowly and look at data logs (if equipped with a data logger) and compare your time/speed between runs. If you start to advance it too far and past MBT, you will see your speed and times come down; dollars to doughnuts if you back it off some, you'll see your time/speed come back up.
Hey Anthony, sending you another question

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post #9 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cabilloabajo View Post
Thanks for the info. But thereís got to be at least a patern or a general rule on the Gen 5 ignition, thereís a lot of companies selling reflash and offering ignition timing adjustments.
There is saying, sucker born every day. That's why there are so many "companies", cause there are that many suckers.
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post #10 of 29 Old 01-03-2018, 07:44 PM
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What Archer said, x10.

Also, what TC said... probably a lot more than x10.

Attack life... it's going to kill you anyway.
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