Gen 4: 2011-2015 Effect of timing being off by one tooth - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 11 Old 06-26-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Effect of timing being off by one tooth

Looking for input:

Back story - Auto CCT failed and one day the valve train got real loud. While stopped at a red light, the bike just died and wouldn't start. Got it home and the cam chain jumped, seized then shattered the exhaust cam sprocket. and the bits and pieces messed up the guides.

Now - Put on a new sprocket, bought used but in excellent condition guides that also came with a cam chain. Also got an APE CCT. With the crank at 1,4 TDC and the exhaust cam perfectly lined up, the intake cam mark at pin #28 & 29 wasn't quite perfect (couple of degrees above the head casting). It actually got a little worse when I tightened the caps down. Buttoned everything up, installed the CCT to just tight and started it. It sounds horrible, so I played with the CCT a little more and it improved, but still pretty bad. Took it for a mild ride around the block then on the highway for a test run. Power is good, no misses or backfires. It is a little harder to start now than it was. I also used the new-to-me chain as I could feel some binding on my old chain on some links. Length and number of links are identical.

Looking for input. Should I turn back the intake cam one tooth and try to better align the marks? I'm afraid that the intake vales are opening and closing a little early and either I'm hearing the pistons kissing the valves or the compression is slapping the valves closed.
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post #2 of 11 Old 06-26-2017, 06:01 PM
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Camshafts are not my forte since I've only played with ones on a Volkswagen, but from what I know, you wouldn't have interference issues when you're only 1 tooth off on the sprocket. Tuners install adjustable cam timing sprockets to intentionally advance or retard cam timing and change the powerband of an engine.

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post #3 of 11 Old 06-26-2017, 06:07 PM
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Oh and let me preface by saying that I've done the valve adjustment on my bike with cams removed and while it was a small challenge to align the marks on the timing gears, it was fairly clear that the marks lined up with the top of the head casing. If you think that your marks are off then they probably are.

2013 ABS, Bridgestone T30 Evo, Woolich, Danmoto shorty & link, Rifleman's 1/5th turn, K&N, GP shift, JT (-1/+0), EK, Shorai, EBC HH, AllBallz roller steering, set up by RMR Suspensions, heated grips, shorty levers, MotoDynamic signals & relay, plasti-dipped and vinyl wrapped (all green to black), Bestem carbon, PUIG Pro sliders, solo cowl, modified OEM sprocket cover, TST fender elim. w/LEDs. 45,000km+ and going strong!
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post #4 of 11 Old 06-26-2017, 08:21 PM
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I bet your engine lasts 100 miles if you continue running it.
When cam sprocket was shattered then valves are bent (damaged beyond repair).
It is running somehow because titanuim valves bend back somewhat.
Measure valve clearences, it just proves valve damage.
Motor off, cylinder head off...hope that pistons are ok.
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post #5 of 11 Old 06-28-2017, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos76 View Post
I bet your engine lasts 100 miles if you continue running it.
When cam sprocket was shattered then valves are bent (damaged beyond repair).
It is running somehow because titanuim valves bend back somewhat.
Measure valve clearences, it just proves valve damage.
Motor off, cylinder head off...hope that pistons are ok.
I hope you're wrong. I should emphasize that I was at a red light and when it shut down, it just stopped. The cam chain jammed against the case and basically seized everything, so no contact was made between the pistons and valves.

I found the problem mentioned in my initial post:
When I reinstalled everything, I started counting the chain pin that the EX mark was pointing to rather than the one just above it. So I was off by one pin. That's why the IN mark wasn't lining up with the casing. The pic below shows before I corrected. For anyone just setting out to pull their cams for a similar reason, you want the IN mark to be pointing between the #28 and #29 pin.

[IMG][/IMG]

Clearances are within spec and with the APE CCT adjusted she's as quiet as when it was new.

Last edited by Ninja Johnny; 06-28-2017 at 07:47 AM.
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post #6 of 11 Old 06-28-2017, 09:13 AM
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Adjusting your cam sprocket is a lot less than if you were to move the chain an entire tooth.

If the sprocket shattered the cam was jammed up because your valves were slammed into your piston. Idle or 15,000rpm, doesn't make much difference. Pull the head and I bet you see the marks from piston/valve contact.
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post #7 of 11 Old 06-28-2017, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Johnny View Post
I hope you're wrong. I should emphasize that I was at a red light and when it shut down, it just stopped. The cam chain jammed against the case and basically seized everything, so no contact was made between the pistons and valves.
Post a picture of shattered exhaust sprocket.
Im not any expert but if we assume that exhaust cam was off no more than one teeth at idle and cam chain against case stopped crank (!) then what are chances of valves being good??
Very hard to belive, but maybe you are lucky.
Make more tests.
Are all valve clearences really ok?
How to test valves sealing properly? Pour gasoline into ports?

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post #8 of 11 Old 06-28-2017, 12:44 PM
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the best bet its to pull the head and disassemble, check everything....

dont do half ass this... because it could be a disaster.
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post #9 of 11 Old 06-28-2017, 12:44 PM
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Oh ya, sounds like it's an engine rebuild time.
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post #10 of 11 Old 06-28-2017, 03:03 PM
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Well i cant understand why you would want to gamble, if its because money is a little tight just now then please wait dont ride the bike till you have at very least took the head off & inspected it. This is what will happen if any of those valves are currently damaged it'll cost a lot more later.
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