Cam sprockets gen 4 race cams. - Page 2 - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #11 of 17 Old 04-30-2017, 03:37 AM
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Hello Greendel,

Let me answer your PM questions here, maybe it could be little intrest for others too.
Subject: kit intake and std exhaust cam combo.

I'm just hobby mechanic, take my info with big degree of suspect.
Most of the input info I got ffrom this great forum site, mostly posts from gazx10.

Before anything anybody should ask if you got skill, precision, nerve, time and mechanics talent to do cam degree.
In real life it is more difficult and time consuming to do it first time. And error bites your wallet hard.
Why not send your motor to pro like gazx10 and let him do the work.

As your questions:
1. Degree numbers 110/110? I did not use 110. I don't really know how 110 would work, maybe it adds little midrange (or maybe it takes some top end away).
Since I use bike for race only, then I degreed 112 kit intake and 108 stk. exhaust.

2. Cam sprockets stock or kit? I did take sprocket from my stk. cam and installed on kit cam. Did measure if there is any offset difference between two cams and found no difference. Used the sprocket that was broken-in with chain. Why Kawasaki says that you need to use kit sprocket (part number same as stk. Gen1)? I don't know, maybe better material.

3. Did it yield significant gain you were looking for?
Again before answering: I have feeling (just feeling) that putting in kit cam without raising compession significantly and without running unrestricted exhaust is not worth doing. Kit cams for race engines together with other engine work.
I have head milled only 0.25mm and 0.55mm gasket.
My gains: No gains last year. Little embarrased to say, but I used PowerCommander autotune, stock Arched flashed ECU with quickened secondary plates. Dyno is far away from where I live. I tuned by making many 4th, 5th gear pulls (with several throttle openings) and pressing rear brake to get better sampling.
This winter I got kit ECU (evo version) from pro team with actual maps what they used. No other changes to engine, I made my "4th, 5th gear tuning" again what showed that fuel ratio was OK and needed no big changes according to autotune. Good to go without being affraid to have it lean.
Oh boy what a difference this made. Now much more power coming out of corner and it ripps much harder on straigths. I have no good explanation why kit ECU made such big difference. Was the stk. ECU posessed by evil spirit? Probably not, guess that somehow autotune just did bad job below 12k revs last year. Laught at me but, but now exhaust sound below 11k is much more "juicy". I know I must have proper tuning.
OK, now with kit ECU clear gains showed up and honestly now can keep up with built BMWs on straights what was clearly not the case before.
P.S. Wheelie control is very good with kit ECU and sweet lessened engine braking I was looking for.

Gen4 race: high spec.
Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa 2013: stock.
Kawasaki KX450F 2016: love it.
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post #12 of 17 Old 04-30-2017, 01:29 PM
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Carlos, 1st let me thank you for sharing your experience and in the process answering many of my questions. So it sounds like after the cam installation and accompanying head work and tuning from the PC5 Autotune you didnt notice any significant gains, but after the installation of a Kit ECU from a previous race team the bike was a whole new animal. Since the Autotune didnt make significant changes to the fuel mapping after the Kit ECU was installed - it sounds like the fueling was not off by much. That leaves the significant gains to be found in the Ignition timing of the Kit Race ECU. So no gains were noticed till the Kit ecu was installed. Ughhhh. REally wanted this cam thing to work out, but if the key is in the timing....I guess I will be looking for a Kit ECU. Thanks again Carlos for your response and help.

What did she say? - She Lida da soup!!
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post #13 of 17 Old 04-30-2017, 01:37 PM
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my experience with degree my gen4 was that the bike gained power...

I use woolich, archer ignition map, that is the same as ghul..

I think your no diference came from the ignition.
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-30-2017, 05:47 PM
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What about the guys who just would like to degree the stock Cams? What's needed, what do you degree to etc etc. Is it worth it?

2013 10R
2007 650R
2016 10R
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post #15 of 17 Old 04-30-2017, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREENDEL View Post
So no gains were noticed till the Kit ecu was installed. Ughhhh. REally wanted this cam thing to work out, but if the key is in the timing....I guess I will be looking for a Kit ECU.
Don't jump into quick conclusions based on one bloody beginner accidentally fixing his fueling with kit ECU.
Everything in my talk above is inconclusive, except the fact that a year after motor work one accidental tweak fixed the error (fueling) and made the bike run like it should (keep up with S1000RR, I thought earlier was not possible in my case).
In fact I don't know what is the improvement % share of kit intake cam versus other engine mods like porting, raising compression, using full exhaust. Those mods spoiled fueling earlier and I failed with autotune too.

Are kit cams final touch when building full blown race superbike?
Gen4 stock cams are already quite "big", duration same as Gen3 race cams.
As for kit ECU, if no need for engine braking adjustability, instant throttle response, better traction and wheelie control, then possibly stock ECU is good too?
Kit ECU looses lights, but sure you know this.

Gen4 race: high spec.
Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusa 2013: stock.
Kawasaki KX450F 2016: love it.

Last edited by Carlos76; 05-01-2017 at 09:10 AM.
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post #16 of 17 Old 05-01-2017, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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Race Cams

Sorry for the late reply, I lots my password.

I did this because I enjoy this stuff, not because I need the power. Im only a very average rider. First your engine needs to be out, I built a wooden jig to house the engine and I can get it out in about 15 mins, also this fits my bench as my engine stand, well worth the effort to make it.

Buy the cams from Kawasaki, they are dirt cheap and indistinguishable from standard cams, so you would have no idea of what your buying second hand, then I marked them so I will never get them mixed up.

I have the race ECU, a home made engine breather kit, link pipe and exhaust and of course a filter also blocked exhaust breathers.

I will have to chase up my notes later for specs but this is an over view.

Standard sprockets are perfect.
.50mm race gasket [ .47mm is perfect after measuring squish if you have the money to get a gasket made ]
I decked the head, now I will confirm but I think a little more than the book says
new cam chain
manual cam tensioner
The intake is set as advanced as I could get it taking into account the PTV specs
The Exhaust I will have to check
I did not use the factory specs as this bike has no low down power and their specs would only confirm this, I did not want this

All valve clearances set to maximum
PTV checked on both cams again.
Rev limiter set 500 above standard in 5th and 6th

The bike runs perfect, has done for well over a year.
Im not fast but at phillip island and take into account im not quick in turn 12, by the melbourne sign I can pass at will any bike in my class.

I dont have any issues with anyone overtaking me on a straight or in acceleration on any track i ride.

Saying that, the new R1 is probably better suited to someone like me, usable power and thus quicker overall.

My mate has an 1199, another an rc8, a few have the older zx10rs, in comparison to them, its much quicker, not a little a lot.

Lyndon
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post #17 of 17 Old 05-02-2017, 11:52 AM
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Reading it again the post.

let me give my view on things...

1- PC5 autotune is very slow... bazzaz is better and Woolich is best.

I degreed and thinner HG my stock cams and gained 9hp vs a stock engine.
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