brake fade - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 112 Old 02-13-2007, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
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brake fade

Finally got a chance to do a track day and really put the front brakes though their paces. I have SS lines, Pazzos, and RBF600 fluid, all else is stock. I noticed that after the first few sessions, my brake lever pulled back more than normal. I bled tha brakes before the track day with a mityvac and the lever felt great when cold.

Would the brembo MC and some Vesrah RJLs solve this problem?

Steve
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post #2 of 112 Old 02-13-2007, 11:34 PM
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I'd try the RJL's first... assuming you are using the stock pads, they may not be able to hold up to track day kind of abuse. Also, my experience has shown that the mityvac is only good for priming the system when installing new lines but I have always still had to go back and do some more bleeding on each caliper by hand... so maybe try that to see if you have any more air bubbles trapped in there. If all else fails, I've never used one but sounds like the brembo m/c is where it's at!
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post #3 of 112 Old 02-13-2007, 11:49 PM
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I may as well jump in and open this can of worms right now. There are two things that will cause brake fade. One is the effects of heat on the rotor and pads that cause your coefficient of friction to decrease. This is usually from gases migrating out of the pads and keeping the friction low between the rotor and pads. You can squeeze the lever really hard with little braking taking place. This type of fade doesn't make your lever travel change.
The other type of fade occurs when you get gases in the fluid. This can be from poor bleeding (air) or boiling fluid. Brake fluid won't compress, gases will. This type of fade makes your lever travel farther for a given brake pressure. Eventually, the lever can contact the grip if enough gas builds up. Obviously, the fluid boils in the caliper, behind the pistons, where the heat is. It doesn't matter what you are using to push on that gas bubble, it will be mushy until the fluid cools and the gas condenses back to a fluid. So changing your master cylinder to fix a problem with brake fade is chasing ghosts. Concentrate on the root of the problem first. Just my .02......
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post #4 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 12:42 AM
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The m/c is the problem with the 10's brakes. That's why many people swapped the 10's m/c with the '05 6R radial m/c. That improves things a bit, but after a few sessions the lever will still come to the bar. I haven't tried it yet, but the brembo m/c is supposed to cure the problem.

As for the pads, aftermarket ones, especially vesrahs, will increase braking power but the stock pads don't have anything to do with your lever coming to the bar.
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post #5 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 02:03 AM
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The Brembo m/c will not cure the problem. Whoever said that is blowing smoke.
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post #6 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12RPilot
I may as well jump in and open this can of worms right now. There are two things that will cause brake fade. One is the effects of heat on the rotor and pads that cause your coefficient of friction to decrease. This is usually from gases migrating out of the pads and keeping the friction low between the rotor and pads. You can squeeze the lever really hard with little braking taking place. This type of fade doesn't make your lever travel change.
The other type of fade occurs when you get gases in the fluid. This can be from poor bleeding (air) or boiling fluid. Brake fluid won't compress, gases will. This type of fade makes your lever travel farther for a given brake pressure. Eventually, the lever can contact the grip if enough gas builds up. Obviously, the fluid boils in the caliper, behind the pistons, where the heat is. It doesn't matter what you are using to push on that gas bubble, it will be mushy until the fluid cools and the gas condenses back to a fluid. So changing your master cylinder to fix a problem with brake fade is chasing ghosts. Concentrate on the root of the problem first. Just my .02......

Well said that man!!

Stock hose routing on the 10 with that stupid cross over hose is usually the place the air is hiding. Take the left caliper off put something (piece of alloy / steel) between the pads to simulate the rotor think about where the air will go (hint it rises ;-)).

One thing I have seen way too many times is that when the pads are changed most people just press the pistons back in without first cleaning them. This gunks up the pistons stopping their designed tendency to retract the pistons and pads from the disk surface and ensures that the pads rub on the rotor, this in turn stops them from cooling as much as they should.

Last shot!! Often medium speed riders spend too much time on the brakes, what I mean here is braking gently for a long time rather than getting it over and done with in less time, this also gives the pads less time to cool down and can induce fade. In fact I would even consider a wager that this type of rider heats the brakes more than a hot shoe????
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post #7 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12RPilot
The Brembo m/c will not cure the problem. Whoever said that is blowing smoke.
And again !!

Nice feel though....
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post #8 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 07:00 AM
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Your lever pulls farther back now because you prob dissolved half the pad.

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post #9 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 07:53 AM
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I put steal lines and galfer hh pads on mine right after i bought it. Did a track day and got really bad brake fade. Put a brembo m/c on it and now have no more fade at all. Replace the m/c, it really will make a huge difference.

KRONREIF TRUNKENPOLZ MATTIGHOFEN

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post #10 of 112 Old 02-14-2007, 08:54 AM
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Yeah. Pushing on those vapor pockets with a different m/c makes all the difference in the world. Believe who you want fellers. It ain't my money.
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