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Zx6r not doing it for me...

Gen 5: 2016-20 
18K views 51 replies 15 participants last post by  Porschenut 
#1 ·
So, long story short, I'm just not happy with my 2016 ZX6R. I bought it brand new last month with insurance money provided to me to replace my brand new, leftover 2014 ZX10R which got totaled on its maiden voyage back from the dealership. I originally was going to go with a ZX6R to replace my aging 2002 YZF600R, but test rode a few older 2008-09 ZX10R's and fell in love with the comfort and power. Found a fantastic deal on a leftover 2014 ZX10R which I bought back in July and loved it during the short 2 hour ride/time I owned it before fate had other ideas.

Don't get me wrong, the 2016 ZX6R is a fantastic bike, but my main issues are as follows.

1. My balls keep slamming into the tank when hitting bumps or when slowing down abruptly or letting off the gas abruptly. Didn't experience this on the ZX10Rs I test rode or the 2014 model I briefly owned.

2. I know it's a 600 (pardon me, 636), but I'm just not happy the extra shifting involved to get up to speed and then the high revs when cruising in the 70-90 mph zone.

3. Getting quite annoyed with the twitchy fueling when rolling on/off the throttle. Didn't experience this at all with any of the ZX10Rs I rode. From what I gather an ECU flash can help or fix this issue, but if I'm not happy with other aspects of the bike, I don't want to go down that money road unless I'm planning on keeping the bike for years to come.

4. The reach to the bars on the 2016 ZX6R seem a lot further than on my 2014 ZX10R which tires me out sooner and the ZX10R seemed quite plush in terms of absorbing the bumps on the streets and highways.

So, I'm thinking of trading in the 2016 ZX6R for a 2016 ZX10R or possibly a used 2008 GSXR 750 which I test rode at my local dealership the other day and loved. I've owned two GSXR 750s before (2004 and 2007), but the 2008 one I test rode seemed to have a lot more low end power/torque. It is also light years ahead in terms of comfort for my body type and on the hour-long test drive I did it handled the crappy bumps on the roads I have to contend with on a daily basis almost as well as my ZRX1200R. On the ZX6R my ass is flying out of the seat or my balls are slamming into the tank over the same bumps.

Obviously this is not a Suzuki or GSXR forum so I don't expect any feedback on the GSXR, but compared to the gen 4 ZX10R, would the gen 5 ZX10R be less of a reach to the bars and would it absorb the real-world road bumps as well or better than the gen 4?

I've read that the fueling can be a bit sensitive/abrupt in terms of on/off throttle applications and that one quick remedy is setting the engine braking to the low mode to help alleviate this. Is this true and how much does it alleviate it? Would an ECU flash also smooth out the on/off throttle abruptness and if so what kind of cost would one be looking at to accomplish this?

Feedback appreciated. Thanks! My former 2014 (pre-crash) ZX10R picture attached.
 

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#6 ·
Yes, obijack, you did try to tell me and I thought, well, since I was happy enough with my YZF600R, I should be fine with the ZX6R, but the YZF600R has a completely different engine character which revs much lower at higher rpms, is carbureted and of course the suspension is quite soft so it absorbs bumps almost as well as a Goldwing... :laugh2:

I don't see myself doing track riding or at least not enough to justify owning a dedicated track bike. I already have an upright bike, my ZRX1200R, to meet those needs. Just want a full on sportbike I can live with on the streets. Again, the GSXRs and ZX10Rs I've owned/ridden seem so much more comfy and smooth in on/off throttle applications than this ZX6R. Just curious to know how the gen 5 ZX10R is sine I've never gotten a chance to ride it.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the response 10Arghh.

Owned a 2012 Ninja 1000 a few years ago and didn't like the harsh suspension or abrupt on/off throttle character, even after getting an ECU flash by Ivan himself up at Ivan's Performance in Rockland County New York. My ZRX1200R is filling my upright bike needs fine. I just want a true sportbike that I can live with on the streets. Funny how the GSXR and the gen 3 and gen 4 ZX10Rs I've ridden are so much more street friendly and smooth in on/off throttle applications than the 2012 Ninja 1000 I had.
 
#13 ·
The reach on the Gen 5 is definitely shorter than on the Gen 4. Kawasaki revised the geometry on the newer model resulting in a shorter reach. Maybe Jonathan Rea likes the bars closer?
 
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#17 ·
Just get a Aprilia Tuono Factory and be done! lol

Tuono V4 1100 Factory my2017 - Aprilia

PS- I'll trade you my 2016 Suzuki GSX-S1000 for your ZX6R!
i have a 2016 Tuono 1100RR and its brilliant on the street. Great character. Fun as shit. I have a 2005 ZX10, which feels more comfortable than the newer Gen ZX10s (based on sitting only, never rode one). Itll keep up with a "true sportbike" on the road without question. Rather a comfy bike to ride too. Much much better than riding a clip-on bike on the street.
 
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#16 ·
oh man OP, same exact year and color that I have and I just had a hard drop on it back in sept 10, after literally 1 year of owning it :frown2: I feel ya...

and I get you on wanting to swap out for another zx10r, my brother has a 13 zx6r and I rode it for 2 years prior to me getting my 10r. The power difference and ergos are def more comfortable on the 10r and I mean if you could swap out for a gen 5 Id say go for it, the little extra oomph they put into it for the mid range definitely makes it worth it when being compared side by side to a gen 4 in my opinion.

also the gen 4 had that twitchy fueling near the mid-high rpm range, did a euro ECU mod (zx10r ivan mod) and it seems to eliminate it but even without it you wouldnt notice it unless you were cornering at high RPMs in 2nd gear... which for city riding, like wtf man lol. but yeah I much prefer my 10r over a 6r on street any day. Probably vice versa on track tho.
 
#19 ·
After owning a Z1000 2015 for 2 years I can definitely advise NOT to get one over a ZX10r.
I thought the Z1 was awesome, fairly comfortable, fast and great handling.
I can honestly say I must have only thought this because I knew no different!!
After 2 month on the ZX I rode my friends Z1 last week and it was AWFUL!!
VERY uncomfortable
Sluggish handling
Very heavy in traffic
Very hard to control at low speed
Very twitchy throttle
And it seems to need around 10 gears as the ratios are so close.
Yes there are many nakeds that are leagues better than a ZX10 on the street but the Z1000 definitely is NOT one of them.
The 2 things it does do better IMO is looks better and sounds better but thats it
 
#20 ·
Thank you everyone for the feedback and opinions.

I agree with many of the comments about the ZX10R not being ideal for street use. And I guess I'm kind of guilty of wanting that superbike status while at the same time being somewhat comfortable and happy on real road conditions. Can't have your cake and eat it too, right?

But, I have to say, the 2008 GSXR 750 I test road a couple of weeks ago seemed to meet both my needs. It was fast and fun as hell while being quite reasonable at soaking up the bumps and not throwing me into the tank and hurting my precious gonads. Maybe I can have my cake and eat it too, just not with the ZX10R? Too bad that GSXR 750 was taken off the market by the dealer due to its recently discovered "questionable" history. There is another 2011 GSXR 750 for sale by the same dealer, but I just can't stand the huge front and headlight design on the 2011 and newer models. Call me vain, but the huge front-end bugs me.

The dealer has a 2013 GSXR 1000 which I also test rode and would have considered, but it handled miserably in turns (checked tire pressure and no issues, but seemed to want to stand up and not turn in), and at low speeds the fueling was "choppy" and not smooth at all like the GSXR 750 was which is vital for my commuting in heavy traffic. The lousy turning issue may be related to the tires being worn down and needing replacement, but not sure if the fueling issue is inherently part of the engine's character or related to something else.

I'm not interested in naked upright bikes because I do a fair amount of highway riding with some pretty windy conditions at times and have found fully faired bikes preferable, although my ZRX1200R with the tall screen seems to be work quite well in that regards.

I think I may hunt around a little more for some older (2006-2010) GSXR 750s and see if I can find one that is in decent shape at the right price and color (black or dark blue).
 
#22 ·
Almost every new 1000 is crap out of the box due to Euro 4 emissions requirements. The R1, Zx10r, CBR1000r (and more) are all notorious for a snatchy throttle and you have to fix them with a flash.

You've may have simply fallen in love with a 2008 bike because it doesn't have the same kind of emissions restrictions and is nicely broken in or dialed in closer to the way you like it.

You might be very happy with any bike, including your 636, once it's been set up for you. Give it a chance first. Take it to a suspension expert, tell them the things that you want to improve and have them dial it in for you. It's only going to cost about $50 to try that out.
 
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#23 ·
Well, I had a chance to sit on a couple of 2016 & 2017 ZX10R bikes at dealerships near me. Then I immediately sat on the ZX6R also on the showroom floor next to the ZX10R and I think the ZX10R ergonomics feel more comfortable. Wish I could have taken one of the ZX10Rs out for a short spin, but the dealers would never let that happen with a showroom bike.

So, now I'm leaning heavily toward pulling the trigger and getting a leftover 2016 ZX10R non-ABS in black (gray). Hardly any black ones left, but I managed to find a couple of dealers out of state (about a 2.5 to 3 hour drive from me) that have a few non-ABS black models left and are eager to unload them at what seems to be a pretty good price of $10,999 + dealer fees of $450 and tax of course.
 
#24 ·
Another question for the forum.

ABS or non-ABS? Is ABS really worth the additional $1,000 USD I'd have to fork out?

Also, the bike I'm looking at in my favorite, preferred color of black (gray) doesn't come with ABS. I don't think my 2014 ZX10R had it either.
 
#30 ·
I just realized after looking at my old purchase order that my my 2014 ZX10R had ABS. Not that it means much to me since I only owned it for about 2 hours before fate intervened. I had a Versys 650 with ABS for a short period but never had the opportunity to experience it kicking in so I don't have any real-world experience with ABS on any bike. In the past I remember one time having to brake real hard, real quick on my non-ABS GSXR 750 coming in hot behind a car that had stopped in traffic on the highway and I was glad I could employ the full force of my front brake with a little rear brake applied. Not sure if I would have stopped in time if I had had ABS in that situation.
 
#31 ·
My 14 10r has and, tbh I never notice it really. Front wheel I've never experienced it but rear wheel will stutter up... for a seasoned rider it's a minor benefit but for a newby it can be a big one.

If possible just go with the abs... insurance loves it and it can potentially save you money in the long run

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 
#32 ·
Jeez man, picky picky. I think you're so picky you cant decide what you want most out of a bike lol. Gotta be super comfy, but also a sportbike, dont wanna shift a lot, short reach, probly want some risers, etc...

Man, what ever happened to getting a new to you bike and just growing with it or getting used to the new bike? You'll get used to a new reach, id think. Or maybe not and that will be the only thing you'll focus on when riding? The reach on my first year 636 is extreme and yea the angle is rough too so itll smack your balls if not careful. Ive learned ways to not let this happen but then i tend to use a lot of my legs and feet when i ride too. Ive also had a surgery on each shoulder and the reach doesnt bother me unless i do a 300 mile day. She's rough around the edges and thats putting it lightly but i wouldnt have it any other way, the bike has taught me a lot about riding.

And as far as ABS, people can say what they want about this statement but - i try to always have An Out and try to never put myself in a situation where i cant control the braking.
Its a purely Zen moment when you can slam down gears while also modulating the front with the rear to not only stop the bike in time but do it without losing traction or upsetting the bike.
Call me a pussy but i try to never ride in the rain too which is where id think youd need it most. Rode in a toad strangler over the summer and it would have given me some nice peace of mind but luckily i didnt need it that day and there was even hail lol so..
I can understand how ABS can save yer ass, i really do get it, im not that dense but i just feel like if you're using it that much on the street maybe you are either riding too hard or need to think about your style/body position, stuff like that. Heck i cant even remember the last time i locked up the rear.

Also, i ride my 636 just fine on the street, it rocks in fact. At least for me. I think saying 600's suck for the street is a pretty generalized statement since they work well for some people. If that were the case - they suck - we'd be on a ZX300, ZZR, ZRX or Z1 forum. Yea you gotta shift but you can short shift to a gear and cruise, i do it all the time and always have plenty of pep to pass any car i come across. I guess if you dont wanna shift just rip yer clutch lever off and lose some weight. Or, Honda makes some POS that is automatic if i remember correctly. Gonna try to disagree as politely as i can on that one and leave it at that. :wink2:

I didnt even wanna reply because it seems futile in this thread but i had a few min's this morning so whatever.


@ ZX10Arghh, gotta agree i hate the angular look of many bikes these days save for the KTM bikes. Thats why i love my GenII fat girl so much, not hardly a hard line on the bike, all curved lines. And yea i too love the look of Yamaha bikes.
 
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#37 ·
Also, i ride my 636 just fine on the street, it rocks in fact. At least for me. I think saying 600's suck for the street is a pretty generalized statement since they work well for some people. If that were the case - they suck - we'd be on a ZX300, ZZR, ZRX or Z1 forum. Yea you gotta shift but you can short shift to a gear and cruise, i do it all the time and always have plenty of pep to pass any car i come across. I guess if you dont wanna shift just rip yer clutch lever off and lose some weight. Or, Honda makes some POS that is automatic if i remember correctly. Gonna try to disagree as politely as i can on that one and leave it at that. :wink2:
Capncalyx you have a good point. Since starting this thread, I've ridden the ZX6R a couple of more times to try to focus on what aspects really, absolutely, unequivocally bothers me about it and what I can appreciate, learn to accept and grow to like.

GOOD THINGS
So, the lack of power issue really is no longer an issue. I'm close to being out of the break-in period and on the last two rides I wrung out the engine quite a bit more and really enjoyed the whine of the engine and rush of speed above 8K rpm. For practical street speeds this thing is way more than adequate. Cruising at around 70-80 mph also doesn't seem as annoying as I initially thought and I really don't plan on touring with this bike so long stints at that speed won't be a factor. I also love the sharp handling which I'm not sure the 2016 ZX10R can match.

CONS
The fueling when closing/opening the throttle at certain rpms and in certain gears still can be quite abrupt and downright annoying no matter how smooth I am, especially when I'm either mildly putting along in stop and go traffic or when I'm flying fast and need to cut speed down immediately by letting off the throttle. I guess an ECU flash will solve this issue as many have stated before. Need to figure out how much and who I can find near me to do it who will do it right. The ergonomics and suspension are still too harsh for my taste. I put on some grip pads (see attached pictures) which have helped tremendously and I'm no longer sliding into the tank when slowing down or hitting bumps. But, I still would love to be able to put on some helibars (had them on my GSXRs and loved them - they don't make them for the newer ZX6Rs) to just bring up and back the clipons ever so slightly to get the reach closer to what I experienced on my gen 4 ZX10R. I'm quite a light rider at around 170 lbs with full gear on. Not sure what I can do to make the suspension better soak up the harsh imperfections of New York City highways, but my dealer said the factory settings were set up for a rider of my weight.

So in conclusion, if I can manage to resolve the 3 major remaining cons (fueling, clipons reach/angle and suspension harshness) then I may very well be happy with this bike and be looking forward to riding it regularly.
 

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#34 ·
Go look at puig windscreens for the naked 1000’s. They wind tunnel test their screens and supply a document that shows what percentage the screen cuts down on wind pressure and where it does in relation to the riders body parts. Honesty, unless you are riding 100 miles each way you will be fine on a highway. Just wear a quality helmet.

That being said the z900 is a beautiful bike. But it is down on power in its class.
 
#35 ·
A little wind screen on a naked majorly helps. I know the screen on the Tuono helps quite a bit. My friend has a Triumph Street Triple R that he added a fly screen to and he said it really helped with the wind too. Thats all it takes. Tuono on the Freeway feels just about like the Gen 1 10R does.
 
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#36 ·
aright so basic canned response cuz i didnt read everyones response but, trick to that bike is, install 2009 zx6r velocity stacks, yes the stock ones, then get the ecu flashed, i recommend 2 Wheel DynoWorks. the stacks are good for 10hp alone on top of the flash. the full system zx6rs getting flashed with stacks are easy pushing 125hp, throttle helped a ton, reduced engine braking etc, really fixes the problems with the bike. it's a whole new ride after a proper tuned flash. if you get a crap flash, it's not going to fix anything.

your nuts hitting the tank is two fold, the crap tune in the bike and also, you not using your knees and core to keep your body stabilized.

quickshifter helps the shifting issue too
 
#41 ·
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thats how ive done it for years.
I keep a cheapo notebook with info in it like torque #'s, different mileages and pages of suspension adjustments. I Star* or highlight in some way the ones that feel good or the direction that feels good and keep going in that direction until it doesnt feel good and go back one. Do one adjustment at a time too like either rebound or comp or spring but dont mix em up until you really get a feel for what you're doing. At first it took me a while to learn what i was feeling and how to feel it and it was frustrating the first couple years. But after riding, adjusting in small amounts and repeating, about the 2nd or 3rd year it really started to click with me, ya that long lol. Now i feel im at a place where i can make adjustments with confidence knowing about what effect it should produce and have gotten to where its at least something i can work with on the street until i can get better suspension parts. Im not saying im a expert by any means - far from it, this is just how i do it.

Although i will say its an ongoing thing, i still tweak it here and there:lol: and try to fiddle with it to see if i can get it better but with stock suspensions its usually a pretty fine line. If i screw it up and it gets out of whack, i go back to my Star'ed* settings i liked that i have written down. And if you change tires or psi you may need or want a small adjustment.

I always try to shoot for a balance between what the back and front are doing. Dont want em fighting with each other. If the back rebounds fast i try to match the front with it. I like the rebound to be pretty fast with nice compression and i use a zip tie or whatever on a fork to see how much comp im getting and i adjust so at the hardest bump in my ride i still have and inch or so left on the fork for any emergency dive/bottom out. Its not easy to do on your own but i usually push down on the rear somehow and the front to note how fast the rebound seems - you get a better idea once you ride though.

I really wish more people wouldnt be so afraid to mess with their suspension, it can be fun and you can dial yourself in to different rides or road conditions if you know what you're doing well enough. Also ive found that there's a fine line on the adjusters too. For example i like a lot of compression but there's only a small area of adjustment where i can get what i want but if i go too far either way, and its not much, it either gets super hard or so wacky soft it feels unstable. Dont go far, just a click or millimeter or quarter turn, whatever.

You might even try to find a tire that will absorb the bumps a little better... see? There are little tricks to try yet. Sorry for the book.
 
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#45 · (Edited)
So yesterday I went to a dealer (not my usual one) not too far away that had a 2016 ZX10R, 2017 Z900 and my own 2016 ZX6R.

For the hell of it I sat on all three bikes a few times in a specific order, Z900 > ZX10R > ZX6R rinse and repeat. The salesperson held the bikes upright for me so I could get a more realistic idea of how they felt as opposed to sitting on them on the kickstand.

The Z900 felt super comfy and looked pretty mean, but the lack of any real wind protection might bother me especially since I ride through the cold NYC winters when the road conditions are reasonably safe.

The ZX6R felt like my current bike. Duh! So that was no surprise.

The ZX10R actually felt more comfortable than the ZX6R in terms of the reach to the bars and how my legs wrapped around the tank. The seat height is higher and the pegs may actually be higher so in a way I was more in a bunched up seating position than on my ZX6R, but it just felt more comfortable and I didn't feel like I was hunched over as much or angled downward toward the tank.

Go figure.

I've still got a great deal on a leftover 2016 ZX10R with either ABS or non-ABS in black about 2.5 hours away and just confirmed with one of my friends that he can go take me up using his large van to get the ZX10R and trade in the ZX6R if I choose do it.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.
 
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