Gen 1 down on power need HELP ! - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 21 Old 11-04-2016, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Gen 1 down on power need HELP !

05 15,000 miles, pc3 full Akro exhaust, not extremely abused bike. Started with a small miss/ studder at a stop light. Had got gas 15 miles earlier, thought it may be bad gas. Put new tank of fresh fuel, and it seemed worse. about half mile of riding it was missing and stuttering. Replaced plugs. Originals were little dark but not fowled. Rode with new plugs, miss seemed gone but under full throttle even in first and second there isn't much power. Will accelerate but not fast. Still thinking fuel issue I pulled pump, checked screen and it was clean. Softly blew out pump filter. Pressure is 44psi at prime and holds at 41psi. 44psi while running. When I pulled plugs I checked stick coils when I replaced plugs and both values were in spec.. Could it be a stick coil or throttle body. Anyone have this problem ? It starts good, idle seems ok but a little rough at part throttle (in shop not on road), revs quickly (again in shop not on the road).
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post #2 of 21 Old 11-04-2016, 06:37 PM
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What does your fuel pressure look like under load? What do AFR's look like under load?
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post #3 of 21 Old 11-05-2016, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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The fuel pressure under load is 44psi. I haven't checked the a/f ratio. Since I was riding the whole day and the problem started at a stop light I didn't figure any a/f ratio adjustments could have changed.
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post #4 of 21 Old 11-05-2016, 08:23 AM
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what spaz said. coil will produce misfire, if pulling smoothley to redline, just down on power, fuel pump or clogged internal filter, most likely pump. pumps can become erratic in performance when failing and unable to maintain pressure necessary for high rpm fueling.
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-05-2016, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Fuel pump is definitely not clogged. The pump held 44psi while running and with revs while on a stand. I guess it could be a fuel pump but the pressure stays steady. As for coils, seems that would be more of the answer to me since there is a slight miss. Ok what exactly is the AFR's ? I thought that meant air fuel ratio. I can find nothing in the factory service manual on how to check them.
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post #6 of 21 Old 11-05-2016, 12:54 PM
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sounds as if u ck'd external sock filter, not the filter that causes problems. the whole plastic cannister ur fuel pump is plugged into is the main filter. have to remove the fuel pump to ck it. fuel pressure at idle, fuel pressure at low throttle position with increased revs, or whacking wide open momentarily on stand is no indication fuel pressure is adequate or constant on road under full throttle load required for accleration. do a search on here, ur problem/solution covered many times.
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post #7 of 21 Old 11-05-2016, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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I stated in my original post I cleaned screen and blew out pump filter. I completely tore pump assembly down. Issue definitely isn't a dirty filter. You're right tho pump pressure could vary from bike on stand and bike under load. I'm ordering stick coils and a pump and starting there.
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post #8 of 21 Old 11-06-2016, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tak82 View Post
I stated in my original post I cleaned screen and blew out pump filter. I completely tore pump assembly down. Issue definitely isn't a dirty filter. You're right tho pump pressure could vary from bike on stand and bike under load. I'm ordering stick coils and a pump and starting there.
Not trying to be rude, but it seems like you don't know how these pumps work. The pre-pump sock/screen is indeed easy to clean, but the post pump filter is sealed into the plastic housing and is nearly impossible to remove and clean (if you've somehow done this I'd love to see pictures). Blowing air through it will not clean it... it will just move the restriction around. Flow testing a pump assembly at pressure will tell the tale, and I recommend you do that; it's not particularly difficult.

Second, free revving it on the stand is not "under load". Under load is 2nd gear or higher, 100% throttle, above 10K rpm or so.... trust me when I say there is a LOT more fuel demand there than in neutral on the stand. If you do not have a way to display or log fuel pressure "under load", an AFR readout (again) 'under load" will go lean if the pump is having a hard time (IE, fuel pressure dropping). They can drop pressure from a faulty pump, clogged filter, kink in a fuel line, or a drop in voltage to the pump.... but all of those will show the dropping fuel pressure under load symptom.

If you have stable pressure under load and it still gets lean up top, then you have an injector problem... It's really that simple. But none of these tests can be performed on the stand, you have to have accurate measurement under load. If fuel pressure and AFR's are acceptable and there is no misfire present (but it's still down on power), then you have a dynamic compression issue... which could be anything from the throttle not opening all the way (to include the secondaries) to a hurt motor or flat cams.

And to back Gaz up here, I've been down this road with more than a few pumps, and they all have displayed the same set of symptoms you are describing.... but I've always used instruments to diagnose it (gauges and logging) rather than just throwing parts at it. An AFR gauge and pressure testing rig will cot less in the long run, and you can move them from bike to bike throughout your fixing career.

/soapbox

EDIT: AFR's are indeed Air-to-fuel-ratios, and they require some sort of aftermarket gauge/measuring device to be monitored on a first gen..... they are typically called "wideband gauges" by the aftermarket. Most people in the business of testing/tuning/diagnosing repairs or engines have one or two laying around. :)

Attack life... it's going to kill you anyway.

Last edited by SpazOnaZX; 11-06-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-07-2017, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Hoping to get this revived cause I'm still having issues. Thanks Spazona for the input, I definitely appreciate everyone's inputs. I do understand how the fuel put works and the internal filter. Here's the latest. The miss is slight but it is from idle thru revs, pretty consistent. I've road tested the bike and it is down on power and when throttle hard there is a hesitation. I've checked pressure and flow rate at pump and they are both well within specs. I replaced plugs, originals looked all identical in color but replaced anyways. Tested stick coils and they were good but thinking there could be a torn boot I replaced them.Still same problem. Checked cylider compression. Pulled injectors, tested good but to eliminate the possibility I swapped the injectors, throttle bodies, tps. Still the same. I have a PCIII which I disconnected and still same problem. Also flow rate on fuel pump is about 200ml. Checked it 4 times. Have pulled the harness apart to look for corrosion, none. Have checked for kinked or bad wires, none. I'm not new to motors, I've been working on cars and bikes for over 30 years. Any thoughts ?

Last edited by tak82; 05-07-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-07-2017, 09:45 PM
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kawasaki zx10r valve retainer failure. - YouTube

Next I would test valve clearances and the valve retainers that go bad on 04-06 zx10r.

Last edited by thundercoupe9; 05-07-2017 at 09:49 PM.
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