Front Caliper Mod, not the usual questions - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #1 of 28 Old 11-18-2017, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Front Caliper Mod, not the usual questions

Hi all,
Been reading plenty of posts regarding the front caliper issues and don't worry, i'm not going to ask the usual stuff.

Can i just confirm, with regard to doing a straight swap from a ZX-6R or ZZR1400, do i need Kawasaki part numbers 43080-0046-DJ (right side) & 43080-0047-DJ (left side)?

These numbers seem to tie up with both bikes from the microfiches i just looked at.

Thanks,
Dave
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post #2 of 28 Old 11-18-2017, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry, i meant to post this in the Gen 2 section.

Just to confirm, this is for a 2006-2007 model. Couldn't work out how to edit or move the post.

Thanks,
Dave
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post #3 of 28 Old 11-18-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeman4968 View Post
Hi all,
Been reading plenty of posts regarding the front caliper issues and don't worry, i'm not going to ask the usual stuff.

Can i just confirm, with regard to doing a straight swap from a ZX-6R or ZZR1400, do i need Kawasaki part numbers 43080-0046-DJ (right side) & 43080-0047-DJ (left side)?

These numbers seem to tie up with both bikes from the microfiches i just looked at.

Thanks,
Dave
https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/...bf/front-brake

Yup the numbers seem to be accurate as per microfiches but why not buy used mono blocks, of a CBR?? This subject has already been beat to death on here so I apologize for my input. For Gen2 I wasn't satisfied with the ZX14 caliper fix. Everyone is different and also at a different skill level / comfort zone. For me it did start to brake as soon as I touched the lever and the brake light didn't come on yet which is a no no for street so need a pressure switch. It's wood with no feel on a Gen2 and needs too much finger force on the lever for my liking with no feed back on when it is going to lock up and is a down grade in my opinion on braking control. It don't feel anything like that on the zx14 / ZX6r that I have driven where the braking is predictable and in perfect harmony with the bike. I can lock up my front wheel on my Gen1 with much less force and modulate with more accuracy and a "delicate touch" with just better pads, braided lines, stock calipers, stock linear master. So for me the "fix" is in the bleeding and better pads / lines / fluid and how much meat is left on the pads effects lever travel too. The amount of lever travel can be reduced by adding a ball bearing to the master if that is an issue. So if spending the money to upgrade the brakes by upgrading the master cylinder and calipers then why not a better master cylinder and mono blocks outside the zx14/zx6r suggested fix???
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post #4 of 28 Old 11-18-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX10 View Post
https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/...bf/front-brake

Yup the numbers seem to be accurate as per microfiches but why not buy used mono blocks, of a CBR?? This subject has already been beat to death on here so I apologize for my input. For Gen2 I wasn't satisfied with the ZX14 caliper fix. Everyone is different and also at a different skill level / comfort zone. For me it did start to brake as soon as I touched the lever and the brake light didn't come on yet which is a no no for street so need a pressure switch. It's wood with no feel on a Gen2 and needs too much finger force on the lever for my liking with no feed back on when it is going to lock up and is a down grade in my opinion on braking control. It don't feel anything like that on the zx14 / ZX6r that I have driven where the braking is predictable and in perfect harmony with the bike. I can lock up my front wheel on my Gen1 with much less force and modulate with more accuracy and a "delicate touch" with just better pads, braided lines, stock calipers, stock linear master. So for me the "fix" is in the bleeding and better pads / lines / fluid and how much meat is left on the pads effects lever travel too. The amount of lever travel can be reduced by adding a ball bearing to the master if that is an issue. So if spending the money to upgrade the brakes by upgrading the master cylinder and calipers then why not a better master cylinder and mono blocks outside the zx14/zx6r suggested fix???
I have to agree with most of whats written here. I did the Nissin Caliper swap and i find the brakes very wooden with little feed back. I've tried different types of pads as well and have braided lines. If i had to do it again i'd keep the stock calipers and upgrade the MC first (Brembo RCS)...
I did find that if i reverse bled the stock calipers (pushed the fuild up from the caliper to the MC), i got a much firmer lever and better feel.
Cheers,

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post #5 of 28 Old 11-18-2017, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeman4968 View Post
Hi all,
Been reading plenty of posts regarding the front caliper issues and don't worry, i'm not going to ask the usual stuff.

Can i just confirm, with regard to doing a straight swap from a ZX-6R or ZZR1400, do i need Kawasaki part numbers 43080-0046-DJ (right side) & 43080-0047-DJ (left side)?

These numbers seem to tie up with both bikes from the microfiches i just looked at.

Thanks,
Dave
Your first mistake is considering to buy brand new OEM calipers. The calipers are awesome, but for $600, uhh no. You add a few hundred to that and you can get some bad ass Brembo mono blocks, not the shit units that come OEM from the gixxers.

Buy them used off Ebay or someone parting a bike out. You could do a total rebuild on them if you desired and still be making out.

I do not agree with the other 2 people replying about the calipers being crap. I would be willing to bet they are running complete garbage pads or did not properly scuff the rotors and they switched brake pad material type and the pads are not bedded in properly.

The caliper swap fixes the mushy lever, as ZX10 stated himself, they worked so well that the lever doesn't engage enough to even trigger the brake light.
Less lever travel is a problem? Isn't that way you did that in the first place...LOL. Get the proper brake switch from the newer M/C...problem solved.

What ZX10 and Chris_1973 are complaining about is 100%, without a doubt, directly related to brake pads. Pads control the feel and feedback on the brake system, period. What the rider prefers in a brake pad is purely preference (Progressive feel, strong initial bite, less initial bite, etc) , so there is no one correct universal answer to what brake pads to run.

Vesrah RJL's are awesome pads to run, that's all I've used this year to win the national championship for V8 HWT on my ZX10.
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post #6 of 28 Old 11-19-2017, 12:47 AM
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I did the swap to cbr calipers and it was easily one of the best upgrades ever, only spent about $80 for the used calipers, took it to a local shop to do the install and make sure they worked lol. Only mistake is I went with EBC HH sintered pads.

The swap made one hell of a difference though going from the stock crap that came on the Gen 2. I can tell a big difference though when I ride my dad's ZX14r with the Nissin calipers that the others didn't seem to like, me personally I prefer the feel of the Nissin's it just felt more progressive to me as to where the cbr calipers and HH pads have a great initial bite but don't have that same progressive feeling the nissins seemed to have. I'm pretty sure my dad's bike has stock pads.

I'm no expert but those are just my experiences, I'm in the market for better pads now which I think is my the only issue but I'd definitely spring for a set of used nissin's or used cbr calipers and then rebuild if they need it. Would be way cheaper than buying new.
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post #7 of 28 Old 11-19-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NinjaLife View Post
I did the swap to cbr calipers and it was easily one of the best upgrades ever, only spent about $80 for the used calipers, took it to a local shop to do the install and make sure they worked lol. Only mistake is I went with EBC HH sintered pads.

The swap made one hell of a difference though going from the stock crap that came on the Gen 2. I can tell a big difference though when I ride my dad's ZX14r with the Nissin calipers that the others didn't seem to like, me personally I prefer the feel of the Nissin's it just felt more progressive to me as to where the cbr calipers and HH pads have a great initial bite but don't have that same progressive feeling the nissins seemed to have. I'm pretty sure my dad's bike has stock pads.

I'm no expert but those are just my experiences, I'm in the market for better pads now which I think is my the only issue but I'd definitely spring for a set of used nissin's or used cbr calipers and then rebuild if they need it. Would be way cheaper than buying new.

I have the Honda calipers on my ZX6 endurance bike and the Nissin's on my ZX10, and I have ridden them back to back at race weekends. Running the same pads on both bikes, the feel is exactly the same. The lever travel between the two is ever so slightly different but nothing drastic at all.
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post #8 of 28 Old 11-19-2017, 01:20 PM
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I do not agree with the other 2 people replying about the calipers being crap. I would be willing to bet they are running complete garbage pads or did not properly scuff the rotors and they switched brake pad material type and the pads are not bedded in properly.
I never said the calipers are crap and they do work excellent on the ZX14 and on the ZX6R from the get go with stock pads. But they don't mate good with the stock master cylinder on a Gen2 in my experience. An informed and experienced effort was made on my part to install / scuff / bed, ZX14 stock pads, so I dono, but I'll take that bet

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Originally Posted by Otto Man View Post

The caliper swap fixes the mushy lever, as ZX10 stated himself, they worked so well that the lever doesn't engage enough to even trigger the brake light. Less lever travel is a problem? Isn't that way you did that in the first place...LOL. Get the proper brake switch from the newer M/C...problem solved.
Short pull trigger action is desirable yes, and less lever travel is desirable, but least finger force on lever is also desirable and so is feel and feed back. I am respectfully questioning this go to “fix” and one of the most popular ones at that. The front brake switch for the ZX14 and ZX6R and Gen1 and Gen2 is same part number so that should translate into all of them being the exact same switch. The radial master cylinders of these bikes are not the same part numbers even though they look the same so I suspect that the difference is in the radial master cylinders of the ZX14 vs Gen2 ZX10R. I never changed the master cylinder on my Gen2 (I no longer have that bike), it was the stock radial unit so having the wrong switch does not come into the equation. There is virtually zero travel and the brake lever on the ZX14 is not like that at all and has enough give to accommodate the brake switch so the ZX14 calipers mate differently with the stock Gen2 ZX10R master cylinder and that is why there is a difference in feel and feedback. Isn’t the “fix” in changing the calipers? So why am I having to look at the master cylinder after applying the “fix” are the fighting words LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Man View Post


What ZX10 and Chris_1973 are complaining about is 100%, without a doubt, directly related to brake pads. Pads control the feel and feedback on the brake system, period. What the rider prefers in a brake pad is purely preference (Progressive feel, strong initial bite, less initial bite, etc) , so there is no one correct universal answer to what brake pads to run.

Vesrah RJL's are awesome pads to run, that's all I've used this year to win the national championship for V8 HWT on my ZX10.

Reading this I have to second guess myself on pads but those same pads have excellent feel and feed back when they are on the ZX14 mated with ZX14 master cylinder so the feel and feedback difference has to be in the master cylinder by process of elimination. The Gen2 ZX10R stock master cylinder mates differently with the ZX14 calipers. I agree that pads control the feel and feedback but to my knowledge and experience so do master cylinder specs and ratios.

What master cylinders are you running on your bikes if you don't mind my asking.
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post #9 of 28 Old 11-20-2017, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Hi all,

Thanks for all the replies on this one.

Dave
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post #10 of 28 Old 11-20-2017, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX10 View Post
https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/...bf/front-brake

Yup the numbers seem to be accurate as per microfiches but why not buy used mono blocks, of a CBR?? This subject has already been beat to death on here so I apologize for my input. For Gen2 I wasn't satisfied with the ZX14 caliper fix. Everyone is different and also at a different skill level / comfort zone. For me it did start to brake as soon as I touched the lever and the brake light didn't come on yet which is a no no for street so need a pressure switch. It's wood with no feel on a Gen2 and needs too much finger force on the lever for my liking with no feed back on when it is going to lock up and is a down grade in my opinion on braking control. It don't feel anything like that on the zx14 / ZX6r that I have driven where the braking is predictable and in perfect harmony with the bike. I can lock up my front wheel on my Gen1 with much less force and modulate with more accuracy and a "delicate touch" with just better pads, braided lines, stock calipers, stock linear master. So for me the "fix" is in the bleeding and better pads / lines / fluid and how much meat is left on the pads effects lever travel too. The amount of lever travel can be reduced by adding a ball bearing to the master if that is an issue. So if spending the money to upgrade the brakes by upgrading the master cylinder and calipers then why not a better master cylinder and mono blocks outside the zx14/zx6r suggested fix???

Maybe i misread on the other threads about this subject, but i thought the CBR calipers required spacers? i was looking for a straight swap.
Also, i hadn't realised the brake light wouldn't come on, that's a problem for me as i only ride on the road.
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