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Engine noise only while deceleration

Gen 1: 2004-05 
12K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  Ghettochilds 
#1 ·
Hey Everyone ? I have an 04 zx10r and makes this really loud rattle/tapping noise only while decelerating? I’ve searched everywhere and can’t seem to find a problem like mine so that’s why I’m posting this up here. I cant hear anything on start up or while accelerating, it’s just when you hit around 3500rpm’s on deceleration it sounds real bad coming from the engine. For example; I’m cruising down the road at that rpm and I pull the clutch in while still holding the throttle open at those rev’s and it don’t go away still so I’m thinking it’s not the clutch (maybe) lol. Bikes had a recent service and new chain and sprockets too. It’s starting to get me down and I only just bought this bike 2 weeks ago but I love it so much. Would really appreciate some help on my situation from the ppl that know the zx10r the best. Thank you in advance ?
 
#2 ·
Welcome to the party!

It would help if you could isolate the area where the sound is originating from on the motor. Right side? Left side? Front? Back? What was done to it in the recent service? What else is done to the bike?

Without that sort of information, it's an involved process to pinpoint the issue. Could be the timing chain, the valves, the cams, the stator, the pistons/connecting rods, clutch basket, engine mounts, etc. Most deceleration noises are from the relaxed top run of the drive chain flopping onto the swingarm, but since those are new parts I would hope not. It's at least worth checking what slack is on the chain quick.
 
#4 ·
Hey cheers buddy and for getting back to me ? yeah the sound is defo comming from the lower right side (as your sitting on the bike) around the engine. It had just a normal service (oil, filter,plugs) the guy I bought it off said the mechanic he took it too didn’t seem to concerned about the noise even thou it’s loud as all hell. The bike hasn’t got any big mods to the engine as such too, all it’s really got is better acceleration sprockets (can’t remember what they are now) a speedo healer, Yoshi exhaust and a steering dampener. I have tightened the drive chain up as I thought that could be the culprit cuz it was a bit loose but to no luck. I thought it could be a loose cam chain also so I have ordered a Manuel cam chain tensioner but I feel you’d hear that tick on start up and while accelerating and deceleration. I took it to one of my mechanics and he said it was coming from around the clutch area so now I’m real stumped. I heard the clutch baskets fail on these bikes, would you only hear that on deceleration and just cruising at a certain rev but not under load (power)? Thanks again for getting back to me!
 
#6 ·
Yeah, the issue sounds like the cam chain tensioner a bit. If you've got the manual tensioner on order, then give that a shot. The cam chain can slap around a bit at certain RPMs and drowned out the other inherent noises. So that could be related to what's happening. The other thing to check is the clutch release arm. You should pop the clutch cover off and inspect the basket, release arm, and the inside of the case itself. In some instances, the basket can actually hit the inside of the case and release arm causing the noise like that. Open it up and check for markings on the items that would indicate something like that.

PS - It's a DAMPER, not a dampener. :badteeth: A damper dampens the movement. A dampener is a wet washcloth. :wink:
 
#10 ·
Yeah it is a bit like a buzzing sound, real hard to explain! Only hear it when cruising (barely on the throttle) and gets bad when decelerating. Really thinking it’s the clutch basket now after everything I’ve read and a few mechanics I’ve been too say it’s comming from around the clutch area too. I am waiting for the Manuel cam chain tensioner to chuck that in and see how it goes but I’m highly doubtful that will fix the problem. Is it safe to still ride with a dodgy clutch basket?
 
#12 ·
No, it's really not safe to ride like that. If the basket is interfering with any of the metal parts in the housing, then you're just grinding metal arts into the engine. That's a recipe for further problems! And that discounts the real possibility that the basket becomes lodged and locks up. That happens in a turn and down you go. That happens at speed and down you go. So let's hope the people in the cars behind you see you in time to avoid you when that happens.

Manual cam chain tensioners are nice - when used in the proper setting by qualified people. They are not something that should be used by your average backyard wrench turner. They require repeated adjustment at frequent internals. They can overstress the cam chain and the valve cams is they aren't set right.

I'm going to be a bit presumptuous here by the questions in your post and go out on a limb to say you're not very mechanically inclined to work n the bike. I come to that conclusion from the fact that you have already ordered a part you're hoping to solve an issue without first diagnosing the issue. Throwing parts at a problem hoping they'll work is never good.

The first things you should be doing is pulling the clutch cover off and inspecting the internals. Are there any wear marks anywhere? What's the general condition of the basket and inside of the cover? Then pull the cam chain tensioner out. Reset the tensioner. Reinstall it with the timing cover off which will let you use a wrench on the crank to slack the rear side of the chain while installing the tensioner. That will allow the tensioner to properly extend to take up the slack like it should. If that fixes your issue, then you don't need a manual tensioner and you know the clutch is ok. If not, then you can start troubleshooting deeper issues. Strategically placed cameras taking video and chase vehicles can help pinpoint the problem. There's no such thing as too much information.
 
#13 ·
First of all sorry for the previous multiple posts, I'm not sure why but it took several hours for them to show up.

I've ridden several Gen 1's with the noise you describe and never really understood what's causing it. Gen 1's do have a unique noise due to the generator arrangement with some bikes being much louder than others. The 04's in particular have an issue with the generator shims so that's worth checking, and whilst that's out inspect the scissor gear for wear. As others have said, inspecting the clutch would be my next step but I'd be looking at the rivets and springs for slack. I'm following this with interest, please let us know what you find.

With regard to the manual CCT, I'm with SkyDork I'm afraid. I'm not a fan and I am surprised there aren't more reported failures due to incorrect setting.
 
#17 ·
The things you state are exactly why I'm surprised that this (the tensioner) is an issue for so long with these bikes (based on reading forum threads)! Being bathed in oil, there is virtually no chain "stretch" because there is so little debris to cause the pins/rollers/gears to wear inside the motor (as opposed to the final drive chain). None of my cars or motorcycles have ever had an issue with chain-driven cams, as you noted is usually the case. If the chain is not wearing, then why the need for frequent automatic adjustments to a manual adjuster? It was this last point you made that made me question what is going on here? Weak spring, wear on the plastic guide, those causes make sense and the fix would be fix the spring (easy) or fix the guide (easy only at major overhauls). Or maybe the chain tunnel is too small for the allowable chain slack???
 
#19 ·
The tensioner is "presumed" to have an issue. It really doesn't. But you'll see a lot of posts about it because it doesn't immediately take up any slack and rattles sometimes. But most people hear a bit of a rattle, freak out, and then wonder why the tensioner "doesn't work right". It does though. In a car, the motor and cam chain is buried under a hood, behind a radiator, with an exposed alternator belt and power steering belt. If your cam chain is rattling, you won't know it unless you stick your head in the engine bay. Different than most bikes.

And the chain will stretch a bit as it's pulled under tension. The valves are spring-loaded shut. The cam lobes have to push the valves open (force) and then when the valve springs force them shut, they push on the cam lobes (opposing force). So the cam chain is constantly being pulled in one direction and pushed in another. All at an average of 7,000 times per minute. That constant back and forth will stretch a chain over time a small amount.
 
#18 · (Edited)
sometimes the gen 1's developed a buzzing noise ur describing from resonance located in front upper fairing at certain rpm acclerating/decelarating. sounds just like engine noise. i've had 2. bring it to that buzzing point and push/ pull on windshield and front fairing. need to completley pull that clutch hub assembley and inspect the hub backside, dampner springs, rivets and attached steel backing plate. loose or broken springs, broken rivet, bowed steel plate allowing excessive hub movement could be the culprit. also the cause of hub to case contact.
 
#21 ·
Hey mate I have already tried the Manuel cam chain tensioner with no luck.. took it into a shop today and pulled the clutch basket out and found this (the springs have chewed out the metal on the side).... hoping that this is the rattling problem I have! Ordered a new clutch basket now and will keep everyone up to date with the fix for my bike ? thanks for all the help
 

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#23 · (Edited)
yeah, that will do it. good idea to tig weld around those rivet heads on new assembley to lock them square to the metal backing plate. they actually slide the distance the springs compress in the hub cocking them a bit eventually contributing to the backing plate bowing/wearing as yours allowing the springs to become loose and less effective cushioning power transfer.
 
#24 ·
primary reason for cam chain stretch is firing impulses transmitted directley from crank to cam chain. reason cars run a crankshaft dampner to soften these power pulses, cam chains and gears would be chewed up in no time without them. they rob power so we dont have them. reason u now see many cam chain tensioner assembleies plumbed with oil pressure line, the oil pressure cushions the firing pulses transmitted to the chain. spring pressure also a factor as stated but more of a steady load compared to shock recieved from combustion process with our higher compression engines. engines produce practically all thier power in first 20 degrees crank rotation after tdc, cam chain subject to these abrupt power spikes from all 4 cyls. u may hear some noise, may have to adjust/replace, but the tensioner/camchain do a pretty damn good job for what they deal with.
 
#25 ·
Firing pulses! Forgot about that in my previous post. Ugh. For sure the spring and cam pressure are steady compared to the combustion event. But given the speed at which those are happening and the timeline that it occurs over several thousands of miles, you'd think that would wear the chain over time. And considering a 4 cylinder motor should be relatively smooth in the firing pattern, a cross-plane crank or twin cylinder would be subject to more abrupt pulsing. But it all adds up.

Thanks for the thorough explanation, as usual! It's always an expansion of knowledge!
 
#29 ·
No. Still haven’t found the problem to this issue.
Changed the clutch basket and welded the rivets, changed the cct and had a full major service and still the noise remains. Anyone have anymore sudgestions to what it could be?? I’m thinking it could be the generator now but just not sure... seem to be throwing money at this bike and nothing is fixing the issue. Any help would be much appreciated ? thanks
 
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