Brembo M4 calipers spacers or not? - Page 2 - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Boomer0369 View Post
I put the M4s on my Gen 1.....lets just say AMAZING!!! Do it for sure, you won't regret it!

Really? Are you sure there isn't some placebo effect going on there... Those M4 calipers are OEM fitment on Ducati's so why would you want another OEM style caliper to replace an OEM caliper?

If you want to improve the performance over OEM calipers on the ZX-10R with the Brembo line you really need to step up to at the very least the GP4-RX model.

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post #12 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LDH® View Post
Really? Are you sure there isn't some placebo effect going on there... Those M4 calipers are OEM fitment on Ducati's so why would you want another OEM style caliper to replace an OEM caliper?

If you want to improve the performance over OEM calipers on the ZX-10R with the Brembo line you really need to step up to at the very least the GP4-RX model.

Mike, I too swapped out the M4 for the stock (and the zx6r tokicos). I have a pretty good feel for a bike and have been racing since my RC51 days. I also talked to Dan about calipers before I bought them. He said nearly the same thing as you. These are a cast unit, with OEM in mind.

Now with all of that said I did my homework and was choosing between the billet HP calipers. The GP4-RX just wasn't in the race budget. And after talking to Jeff at Braketech (poor guy answered alot of questions) I chose the M4, knowing that if they didn't fit the bill that selling them would be easier than selling the HP.

Now to get to the point, I like the feel and modulation of the m4. And that additional feel directly affects lap times. They aren't bling, they don't look fancy and every BMW, Aprilia, and Duc has them stock, so they sure as hell arent special. But they get me around a track faster and give me confidence at the lever.

There are obviously better calipers out there, but for a $700.00 upgrade my shitty cast M4's seem to work well.


Last edited by fireman69; 03-26-2014 at 12:27 PM.
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post #13 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fireman69 View Post
Mike, I too swapped out the M4 for the stock (and the zx6r tokicos). I have a pretty good feel for a bike and have been racing since my RC51 days. I also talked to Dan about calipers before I bought them. He said nearly the same thing as you. These are a cast unit, with OEM in mind.

Now with all of that said I did my homework and was choosing between the billet HP calipers. The GP4-RX just wasn't in the race budget. And after talking to Jeff at Braketech (poor guy answered alot of questions) I chose the M4, knowing that if they didn't fit the bill that selling them would be easier than selling the HP.

Now to get to the point, I like the feel and modulation of the m4. And that additional feel directly affects lap times. They aren't bling, they don't look fancy and every BMW, Aprilia, and Duc has them stock, so they sure as hell arent special. But they get me around a track faster and give me confidence at the lever.

There are obviously better calipers out there, but for a $700.00 upgrade my shitty cast M4's seem to work well.

That's fair enough. If I am not mistaken the ZX-6R uses 4 pad calipers in all models which I tend to think of as inferior to most OEM calipers on the market for the same time period. This would also apply to Boomers Gen 1 ZX-10 for that matter so I could fathom some improvement over going to the 2 pad lower end Brembo's.

Having said all of that the step up to the GP4-RX is friggin huge over the M4 or HPK line of calipers. I feel you are really getting something for your money once you hit that level let alone going to the GP4-RR which at $1600 each are still a pretty good value when compared to the $2500 each 4 pad monobloc's. To me it seems the disparity between the M4 & HPK calpers when compared to the GP4-RX is much greater than the GP4-RX versus the super high end monobloc's.

For the record I think the GEN4 calipers on the ZX-10R are damn good, but that won't stop me from installing the RX calipers this weekend :)
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post #14 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 12:43 PM
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That should have read

"so I could fathom some improvement going to the 2 pad lower end Brembo's. "

Silly sight rules won't let me edit posts until I grow up
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post #15 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LDH® View Post
That's fair enough. If I am not mistaken the ZX-6R uses 4 pad calipers in all models which I tend to think of as inferior to most OEM calipers on the market for the same time period. This would also apply to Boomers Gen 1 ZX-10 for that matter so I could fathom some improvement over going to the 2 pad lower end Brembo's.

Having said all of that the step up to the GP4-RX is friggin huge over the M4 or HPK line of calipers. I feel you are really getting something for your money once you hit that level let alone going to the GP4-RR which at $1600 each are still a pretty good value when compared to the $2500 each 4 pad monobloc's. To me it seems the disparity between the M4 & HPK calpers when compared to the GP4-RX is much greater than the GP4-RX versus the super high end monobloc's.

For the record I think the GEN4 calipers on the ZX-10R are damn good, but that won't stop me from installing the RX calipers this weekend :)

I can understand that. The big reason for the zx6 nissin is that it has different piston diameter than the stock (firmer lever feel) and the 4 pad has more leading edges which gave that caliper a better initial bite.

I really like a stout inital bite, and the firmer lever is a preference as well.

To get back to the GP4-rx, I know that you have had the chance to taste test alot of the finer components. What would you say is the major advantage over the M4? I know they use the same pads, are they the same piston diameter?
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post #16 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fireman69 View Post
I can understand that. The big reason for the zx6 nissin is that it has different piston diameter than the stock (firmer lever feel) and the 4 pad has more leading edges which gave that caliper a better initial bite.

I really like a stout inital bite, and the firmer lever is a preference as well.

To get back to the GP4-rx, I know that you have had the chance to taste test alot of the finer components. What would you say is the major advantage over the M4? I know they use the same pads, are they the same piston diameter?

M4 is 34x4
GP4-RX is 32X4

The piston design itself isn't really that much different between the calipers other than the size, but the RX really shines for consistency during times of track abuse. This probably has a lot to do with the actual metal used for the casting versus the CNC. The CNC RX design even though it is a 2pc caliper is actually much stiffer than the cast monobloc design (which generally is thought of as synonymous with stiff) and the CNC metal withstands higher temps better. The CNC design of the RX & RR calipers is also machined in a specific direction with the grain of the metal to be stronger plus the shape is also designed to give more rigidity to the bridge of the caliper etc. It's all those little things that add up to better modulation and feedback from the brakes.

Once you get into the higher end calipers with TiNi coated pistons/pins with no dust seals etc then you really discover where all that money has been spent.


Back to the 4 pad versus 2 pad thing: Having mostly used 2 pad calipers for most of my early riding career I was very infatuated with my first set of 4 pad Brembo mono-bloc's and at about $7000 worth of brakes when combined with race pads (sold separately) plus narrow band rotors plus a master cylinder, who wouldn't be, but that hard initial bite of 8 leading edges instantly putting the bite on your rotors can be a curse... In a perfect world on a race track where you always apply the brakes before the turn and trail off accordingly they are awesome, but throw in unpredictable track students or inattentive and/or mistake prone trackday attendees and you may frequently find the need to use the brakes under conditions where you are already leaned over and carrying decent corner speed. That's where 4 pads would get me into trouble quickly. 2 pads are now my design of choice. I get a little less initial bite, but I feel the overall modulation is better and I can apply them anywhere anytime I need to at any lean angle and know exactly what to expect from the front tire regardless of lean angle. Others may feel differently, but as I am not a professional racer having to hit the same entry point on a dime lap after lap. I find the 2 pads much more forgiving and easier to use.
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post #17 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LDH® View Post

Back to the 4 pad versus 2 pad thing: Having mostly used 2 pad calipers for most of my early riding career I was very infatuated with my first set of 4 pad Brembo mono-bloc's and at about $7000 worth of brakes when combined with race pads (sold separately) plus narrow band rotors plus a master cylinder, who wouldn't be, but that hard initial bite of 8 leading edges instantly putting the bite on your rotors can be a curse... In a perfect world on a race track where you always apply the brakes before the turn and trail off accordingly they are awesome, but throw in unpredictable track students or inattentive and/or mistake prone trackday attendees and you may frequently find the need to use the brakes under conditions where you are already leaned over and carrying decent corner speed. That's where 4 pads would get me into trouble quickly. 2 pads are now my design of choice. I get a little less initial bite, but I feel the overall modulation is better and I can apply them anywhere anytime I need to at any lean angle and know exactly what to expect from the front tire regardless of lean angle. Others may feel differently, but as I am not a professional racer having to hit the same entry point on a dime lap after lap. I find the 2 pads much more forgiving and easier to use.
That is all really great info. Thank you for that.

Now I have only spent about 7 days on track with the M4 so take it for what it is worth. I found that the inital bite of the M4 pad felt the same as the inital bite of the Nissin 4 pad.

I use the Ferodo ZRAC pad, which is designed for high initial bite anyways. I used them on both types of callipers as well. So in the pad design and function I lost nothing on the inital bite and gained on the modulation during trail braking.

If I ever find myself able to put 1800.00 into a set of calipers I'll have to look at jumping on the RX.

Hopefully the RX work out nicely this weekend for you Mike. Are you going to get a chance to ride?
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post #18 of 21 Old 03-26-2014, 02:15 PM
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Hopefully the RX work out nicely this weekend for you Mike. Are you going to get a chance to ride?
If I do it will just be a street ride, not a conclusive track outing.
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-31-2014, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by LDH® View Post
Really? Are you sure there isn't some placebo effect going on there... Those M4 calipers are OEM fitment on Ducati's so why would you want another OEM style caliper to replace an OEM caliper?

If you want to improve the performance over OEM calipers on the ZX-10R with the Brembo line you really need to step up to at the very least the GP4-RX model.

I looked at the GP4s and thought yeah I could use those....but for just a track day steed with maybe some WERA stuff hopefully in the near future, the cost benefit analysis didn't come out in favor of the GP4s. The M4s I think for my function are a pretty big step above, the stock calipers. I currently run in intermediate and am not the fastest cat out there by far, but with the stock setup after 2 good hard laps I would get some serious brake fade, session after session it would be the same thing 2 great laps and then changing brake markers due to fade. Riding with the M4s, I rode whole sessions with the same brake marker and even going deeper with no fade. Unfortunately, I paid more than $700 for these bitches but I'm still very happy with my purchase and think I got my monies worth.
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-11-2017, 10:21 PM
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guys,

Sorry i now its a old thread but i need some clarification here..

im now using a M4 monoblock with 8mm caliper spacer. just bought a t-drive rotor size 320mm. so is that i need a +5mm from 8mm spacer to fit this rotors?meaning that 13mm for m4 with 320mm rotors size?

your advice on this is really appreciated.
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