Gen 4: 2011-2015 abs removal - Page 4 - Kawasaki ZX-10R.net
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post #31 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 09:11 AM
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Can I buy a non abs and put abs on it???
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post #32 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 10:18 AM
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Good question that! Im interested in seeing the answer..
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post #33 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 10:39 AM
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You probably could but you would be better off buying an ABS. You would need a new wire harness, abs module, possibly an ECU. It's hard enough taking it off, installing it would be an absolute nightmare.
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post #34 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 11:48 AM
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I cannot fathom why anyone would want to. Linked braking systems have never been a good thing and add to that electronics that limit braking forces preventing lockup that is specifically designed to error on the safe side which means less braking instead of more and you get longer stopping distances period.

The S1000RR was one of the better ones, but even on the street just being mildly aggressive that ABS system caused a very abnormal upset in the chassis upon braking and on the ZX-10R I cannot even count how many times I blew a corner entry because the ABS just wouldn't slow the bike down properly. Once the ABS systems were removed from both bikes it was back to business as usual. For track use ABS is in my opinion dangerous unless you are willing to ride around as if you were on the street which is just dumb.
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post #35 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 04:36 PM
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Can I buy a non abs and put abs on it???
Only if you want to make your bike's braking performance worse than it already is...

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Originally Posted by LDH View Post
I cannot fathom why anyone would want to. Linked braking systems have never been a good thing and add to that electronics that limit braking forces preventing lockup that is specifically designed to error on the safe side which means less braking instead of more and you get longer stopping distances period.
^^^ 100% ABS is a liability not a magic bullet to safety.

Learn to brake properly, your family will thank you for it.
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post #36 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 05:41 PM
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possibly an ECU.
Nope. The ECU just acts as a messenger and passes on the info to the ABS module where all the calculations are made. So an ABS ECU works in a non-ABS bike and vice versa. Same goes for bikes with the ESD; a bike fitted with a front ESD (13-15) will work fine using an ECU from a bike not fit with one (11-12) and vice versa for the same reasoning.

Also, I don't think the brakes are linked on the 4th gens... at least not like on the CBRs and S1000RRs. E.G. if you jam on the front brake only it will apply the rear brake automatically. I have an ABS shootout done where they tested the efficiency of the ABS using just the front, just the rear and then both. In some test results you could see what bikes were linked as they stopped the same distance as if both brakes were applied but only input brake to the front or rear. Pretty sure CBRs were called out on it specifically in the test results along with the BMW. The ZX-10R results showed they weren't. I'll scan the article tonight.

But back on topic... on the street I have seen the benefit of having the ABS on the bike; hit a patch of wet leaves in the fall while having to make an emergency stop. It helped me there. But when I first brought my ABS bike out to the track for a track day I instantly noticed ABS sucked. Resulted in me pulling the ABS fuse. This is now why I bought a non-ABS bike specifically for the track so I didn't have to dick with all that. Even in the race kit guide, they advise against using an ABS equipped bike for competitive racing.

So if you do have an ABS bike and want to run it on the track you have a few options:
1) Pull the ABS fuse // Will give you an error light on the dash
2) Pony up for a new Brembo MC and run your own braided stainless lines to the calipers directly from your master cylinders. Leave the ABS module plugged in but remove all the brake lines and freeze plug them either with silicone or a comparable sized bolt to prevent any fluid leaks. This is the more expensive way, but it's the better solution that won't give you any issues in the long term and you won't have an ugly light on your dash.
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post #37 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 05:48 PM
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Nope. The ECU just acts as a messenger and passes on the info to the ABS module where all the calculations are made. So an ABS ECU works in a non-ABS bike and vice versa. Same goes for bikes with the ESD; a bike fitted with a front ESD (13-15) will work fine using an ECU from a bike not fit with one (11-12) and vice versa for the same reasoning.
.
The reason I mentioned the ECU is because the ABS and non-ABS have different part numbers.

NON-ABS 21175-0764
ABS 21175-0334
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post #38 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 05:54 PM
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The reason I mentioned the ECU is because the ABS and non-ABS have different part numbers.

NON-ABS 21175-0764
ABS 21175-0334
Yep, they do. But they work just fine interchanged between the models. If you look at the schematic for the bike, all the processing and such is handled off of the ECU and on the KIBS module itself. I've swapped ECUs back and forth on my bikes and let a local friend use my ABS ECU on his non-ABS bike to show the difference between a flashed and not-flashed 10.

The only thing the main FI ECU has to do with it is passing along info like crankshaft position, gear indicator, wheel speed(s), wheel rotation direction(s), side stand position, TPS and a few other small things. I actually scanned and highlighted the signals within the last year and posted them on the site in another ABS discussion.

It passes that info to the KIBS module, where the KIBS module makes the determination on what to do with the front and rear brakes, what pressure to apply, etc based on the logarithms inside of the KIBS module itself. So the ECU is essential in terms of it passively send the info that the KIBS module needs, but it's not altering data or calculating anything ABS related; that's all handled in the KIBS module. Same with the ESD ECU.
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post #39 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 06:04 PM
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That makes sense. I suppose the signals from the wheel sensors for the TC would also apply to the abs. Odd that they have different parts numbers though. Have tried a non abs ecu on a abs?
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post #40 of 104 Old 12-03-2014, 06:11 PM
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That makes sense. I suppose the signals from the wheel sensors for the TC would also apply to the abs. Odd that they have different parts numbers though. Have tried a non abs ecu on a abs?
Yeah, never knew/understood that either. All I can think of is that they (ABS/Non-ABS) are considered different models hence the different part numbers. The tunes and such stay the same between the two ECUs. So it's not like on some of the other bikes where a revised tune comes out (mainly in California model bikes) and the part number changes; ABC123-456A1 -> ABC123-456A2 You'd think they would share the same part number since other parts between the two models do... Maybe there is something we're not privy to?

But I've swapped ECUs between my bikes testing out some Woolich stuff before in the garage with no issues. At this point I don't even know which ECU is in which bike and don't really care because hey, they both work :)
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