Ok so i have 2 tracks within an hour of me now, and im getting ready to start doing trackdays. Let me start by saying i have basiclly a full shop, tools, and knowhow in my garage. I am starting my search for a track bike. I dont want to run my zx10 as i have it clean and modded for my street riding and wish to keep it that way. So here is the main area i am having my thoughts, and where i could use your opinions. I have been looking at all sorts of bikes, 600's and 1000's but im not sure which would be better. I have been riding 1000cc bikes for the last 10 years or so, i am very comfortable with them. I have done everything from stunting, to drag racing, and logged im sure over 200k miles. I'm older so while the track is a whole new beast (and i have a high respect for that fact) i am not some new rider. The wife has a 07 600rr in the garage and i have ridden that several times. Its fun, flickable, stops great, and seems a bike like that would make a great track bike. However im tall, and i cant ride her bike more than 20 minutes before feeling cramped up. I have thought about cost to repair between a common 600 bike or a 1000, and im sure the 600 would be cheaper and easier to find parts (if and when i go down) but not so confident that is worth factoring into the equation. I also know i have no intention of trying to become a professional racer, i just want to go out and learn, get better, and maybe someday i can have some fun in the intermediate class. I dont have any pipe dreams however of it ever being something more than a great hobby. So what do you experienced guys think about all of this? Should i look to a 600 because its cheaper and more forgiving to ride, even though much more uncomfortable. Or is it fine to be a beginner on a 1000? Any input you guys may have is welcomed, and im sure maybe some reasons one way or another that i havent thought of. If you do comment though could you please explain any reasoning for it, not just "get a 600 newb" :mrgreen: Also this has nothing to do with brand, i know im on a Kawi site :wink: My main debate going thru my head right now is what cc to get.

IMHO, I would go with a 600 cause it's a little lighter and a little easier to manage on the track...after doing a trackday on my 600 I was worn out, lol...also you don't have to run a whole 20 or 30 minute session on the track...you can run until you get tired and then just exit the track and rest until your next session...at least that's how they did it at Jennings

Try a ZX-6R. I sat on a 2009 and it felt the same as my ZX-10R.

Sv 650

There's a guy on here in Sac who's a tech and raced his 10 until it was crashed and he got rid of it. He did the mods on my bike. He now has an '07 ZX-6R (street bike) and a racing a ZX-6R and loves it. Say's it's cheaper, and the 600 is more popular of a sport class.

In my opinion i would get what ever bike your most comfortable on. Also i would stick with what you know. If you know and ride liter bikes all the time, why not have a 1000cc track bike as well? Either way, your going to have a blast, both tweaking and riding your track bike.

Personnally, I wouldn't even consider racing a 600 - or even a GSXR 1000 or CBR 1000 for that matter. When I twist the throttle, I want that feeling of raw go power...

Well thats why i am asking for input, and i appreciate all of it guys. I love my 10 and would love to get another 1st gen for the track. At the moment that is the way i am leaning towards going. I also know i am not the most knowledgeable on this topic. So if i ask and 20 guys said get a 600, i am smart enough to realize there is merit behind that, ya know. Kinda like the ol should i get a 1000 for a first bike, sure you can but its a pretty dumb idea. One other small factor besides im comfortable on my bike, is the track i will spend most of my time at is homestead, and its a pretty wide open track from what i have heard from a few friends. Anyhow i'm going next weekend to check it out and hang out with some friends for the day. I figure i will talk to some people in the know, and take the info i get here and make my decision. I know in the end i have to do what i will be happy with, but i prefer to make a sound decision with all the information i can get.

I think a 600 would be better for the track just based on the power/weight ratio. Just don't get a GSXR or CBR. I would go with either the ZX6R or an R6. The R6's are pretty much made more for the track anyways. But when it comes down to it, it's what you feel more comfortable on.

What tracks will you be going to most? If its short/tight like Jennings go with a 600... my 1000RR trackbike is a handful there. If its a long/fast track you will like the extra thrust at the middle of the straight. Just remember- get the 1000 and you will be buying rear tires twice as often:rolleyes: Edit- Unless you are made of money- buy whatever you can get for cheapest and spend some time/money on trackdays and tires. You can always get you dream bike later when you are better. That is what I did- Only spent $1,500... http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=86591

I will be at homestead raceway most of the time, but will make trips to palm beach international raceway as well from time to time. Both are pretty open courses, pbir has a 6/10ths of a mile long back straight :mrgreen:

I am with you on the Hobby issue- I don't care about lap records or running in expert; I just go to have fun (of course I do go as fast as I can :cool:). Since you have the experience to safely handle the big bike and you are gonna visit more open tracks, I say get the liter. When I get stuck behind someone in the tight stuff, I enjoy being able to cut it loose and get buy them when we hit the straights:thumbsup:

Prior to my AMA weekend, I had only done one 1:33 lap at Barber and that was a 1:33.967 on my 2008 ZX-10R. On Geoff May's 2009 GSX-R600 I did a 1:33.137, over 8 tenths of a second faster than on my ZX-10. That was on Dunlop AMA Spec DOT tires on the 600 versus Dunlop NTec slicks on the ZX-10. Switching to the slicks would probably be another 1 to 1.5 second difference. During Daytona Sportbike race 1, I did 8 more laps in the 1:33 range where Again, I've only done one 1:33 on my ZX-10. My GPS top speed on the 600 was 131 vs 142 on the ZX-10. Josh Herrin was hitting 141 on his 600 - weight makes a difference. The 600 turned easier, handled better, had better geometry and suspension, and let me get on the throttle sooner. The 600 was just plain fun to ride too where the 1000 is a constant question of, "Am I about to be an astronaut?" - EVEN ON THE BRAKES! Recipe to get fast - invest in yourself(schools - not trackdays), invest in suspension, invest in tires, fuggetabout the motor. How tall are you?

Prior to my AMA weekend, I had only done one 1:33 lap at Barber and that was a 1:33.967 on my 2008 ZX-10R. On Geoff May's 2009 GSX-R600 I did a 1:33.137, over 8 tenths of a second faster than on my ZX-10. That was on Dunlop AMA Spec DOT tires on the 600 versus Dunlop NTec slicks on the ZX-10. Switching to the slicks would probably be another 1 to 1.5 second difference. During Daytona Sportbike race 1, I did 8 more laps in the 1:33 range where Again, I've only done one 1:33 on my ZX-10. My GPS top speed on the 600 was 131 vs 142 on the ZX-10. Josh Herrin was hitting 141 on his 600 - weight makes a difference. The 600 turned easier, handled better, had better geometry and suspension, and let me get on the throttle sooner. The 600 was just plain fun to ride too where the 1000 is a constant question of, "Am I about to be an astronaut?" - EVEN ON THE BRAKES! Recipe to get fast - invest in yourself(schools - not trackdays), invest in suspension, invest in tires, fuggetabout the motor. How tall are you? Great advice right there.

I started off riding my 10 m at the track but in all honesty it was tough because you have to develope a point and shoot style of riding which is toughon tires IMHO and you must be very ginger with the wrist at first. And with riding the 10 you will have lots of rear tire spin in the corners its just nature of the beast. Thats why i bought a cbr600rr and im in love with the bike too, its light & nimble and she has got some balls. My last race was in a liter bike class and I had no problems picking off the big bikes, and im not a lil guy im 6'2" 180lbs and i love the way the bike fit me with the rearsets and clip-ons. If you really wish to buy a bike go to the WERA board (http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48), thats where i bought my 600rr got a smoken deal. The plus side to that is you live in the south so there are tons of bikes in that area, you will have may to chose from!

OR10 I am 6' 2" ish and about 190, prolly closer to 200 by January. I'm sure if i bought some adjustable rearsets i could make the 600 more comfortable for myself. I also will play on trying to get some schooling as well, very solid advice, thank you. Hooch thanks for the link, my friend had mentioned that to me the other day, but i forgot the website, thank you.

I started off riding my 10 m at the track but in all honesty it was tough because you have to develope a point and shoot style of riding which is toughon tires IMHO and you must be very ginger with the wrist at first. And with riding the 10 you will have lots of rear tire spin in the corners its just nature of the beast. Thats why i bought a cbr600rr and im in love with the bike too, its light & nimble and she has got some balls. My last race was in a liter bike class and I had no problems picking off the big bikes, and im not a lil guy im 6'2" 180lbs and i love the way the bike fit me with the rearsets and clip-ons. If you really wish to buy a bike go to the WERA board (http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48), thats where i bought my 600rr got a smoken deal. The plus side to that is you live in the south so there are tons of bikes in that area, you will have may to chose from! I've ridden my buddy's cbr600rr and it's EXTREMELY light, low, and flickable; however, it's lacking power BIG time (not modded either). Another guy I ride with has a ZX10R (modded) and he is bye bye when we hit the twisties - he's a racer (not me). The 600 is like a rubber band. It winds up slow (unless you're in the way upper part of the band). It depends on what get's your jollies. 600 pros - light weight, handling, cheaper on tires & gas, racing class is more popular. 1000 pros - more torque, hp on straights This discussion is very interesting - I would guess the 600 is faster on the tighter tracks, so it may depend on the track being tight vs. long straights. I'm wondering if the 600 owns certain tracks - :dontknow:.

I agree Sturner, there are certainly pro's and cons to both. I read the article in Super Street magazine the other nite with their bike of the year competition, all of the big 1000's and the zx6r. Well of course i took it all with a grain of salt, but what i found interesting is that on the track the zx6 was only like .6 seconds behind the fastest lap time of the 1000's, and even beat one of them. Granted this appeared to be a more technical track, but none the less it kept up just fine, making up time being able to brake late and carry more corner speed. The good thing is, there is no wrong answer here :mrgreen: I am going to get to start tracking, having a ton of fun, hang with great people, and get to rip around without having to worry. I also dont forsee that i do get a 600 that i would feel the need to upgrade in the near future like i maybe would on the street. There is so much to learn, and improvement will come from me and not be as needed from the bike.

Don't forget to take a look at a GSXR 750. It might be a good comprimise of what your looking for.

just curious..why are you partial to homestead? And isn't it a bit more than an hour? I'm currently trying to get gear together for PBIR because its only 125 bucks and you don't need to prep your bike or anything.

just curious..why are you partial to homestead? And isn't it a bit more than an hour? I'm currently trying to get gear together for PBIR because its only 125 bucks and you don't need to prep your bike or anything. Couple of reasons i guess. One they have barracks or whatever you prefer to call them. They have electricity. I have several friends that ride down there and that i enjoy hanging out with. I know it is a little further away, but its worth it to me. Dont get me wrong, i will be doing PBIR as well im sure, heck its only a 30 minute drive. Curious what you are referring to as far as bike prep though? My friend is one of the tech inspectors at Homestead. You dont need anything crazy to run down there, dont even need safety wires.

Couple of reasons i guess. One they have barracks or whatever you prefer to call them. They have electricity. I have several friends that ride down there and that i enjoy hanging out with. I know it is a little further away, but its worth it to me. Dont get me wrong, i will be doing PBIR as well im sure, heck its only a 30 minute drive. Curious what you are referring to as far as bike prep though? My friend is one of the tech inspectors at Homestead. You dont need anything crazy to run down there, dont even need safety wires. There are NO rules or regulations at PBIR...its crazy. All you need is leathers, boots, helmet, gloves. You can ride your bike right off the street and on the track, no tape or anything needed. As you enter they ask, "are you racing or spectating?" "Racing..Oh that will be $125...The track is straight ahead, have fun!" There is no instruction or anything, no corner workers, anything. Its absolutely nuts and I don't necessarily agree with the operation they run, but in a way I think its neat you can just go out at your own pace and have fun. From my understanding only like 10 bikes show up too so its not crowded.

IMHO I think that a 600 is better at the track. I do trackdays at VIR a few times a year and Barber as often as I can. I took my 08 zx10 to VIR and although it was fun on the back straight I rode as hard as I could and couldnt turn a better lap time than 1:41. I also took my 06 636 track bike and consistently can turn 1:39's. I believe its all rider preference. I am getting ready to sell my 636 track bike if you are interested.

Vamafia send me a pm if you want when you are ready to sell. I dont think i will be in the market until closer to the end of the year though to be honest with you. I am certainly willing to take a look though, and your within a days drive for pickup.

If you're really about trying to learn get a 250r or something smaller. The bigger the displacement is, will amplify your mistakes. Now depending on how your tracks are laid out smaller bikes may be not fun enough. I will be tracking my 636 next year and perhaps a 250r as there supposedly a 40 grid field in the works for budget racing. But ya take schools before racing/trackdays it's worth every penny.

sv650 is a good choice for first track bike. cheap, easy to maintain, and it will teach you corner speed. the sv has very good midrange with 70 odd HP and is fun to ride in tight chicanes and long sweepers as its low center of gravity allows you to run rings around literbikes. the problem is that it has nothing up top so it's not fun on a track with lots of straightaways. however, this can be a virtue for learning as in order to keep up you have to ride the bike smart, and hard...maintain momentum and attack corners according to your gearing. you learn a lot on an sv! it's not point and shoot like a zx10, but in some ways it's not as fun (getting good drive out of a corner with a zx10 is like nothing else) as sometimes at a track day you just want to open it up and fly. however, it's not as potentially terrifying either and thus you learn things faster. you can ride the wheels off the sv and not feel out of your comfort zone. I would buy an sv since they're so cheap and ride it for a half season or so, learn all you can, then get a 600 or liter. or if you start to get faster and really want to get into racing you have a great bike to start with...race the sv in LW twins.

Don't forget to take a look at a GSXR 750. It might be a good comprimise of what your looking for. Probably the best track bike out there. Perfect balance between the 600 and 1000. Teeks, I've ridden my 04 10r and have a 05 6r and aside from the motor there's not a lot of difference that i recall, maybe a bit more flickable, but sizewise somewhat similar. I'd say find a bike that's comfortable and like you said, check around all the brands, they all are pretty good. My 6r is a little roomier than my buddies cbr so you may be comfortable on 600s as well. Definately stay away from a 250, you'd never fit it. The sv suggestion is not bad, a 650 or even a 1000 are pretty good track bikes.

The 600 for sure is a better bike to start off with. But then you said that you dont want to become racer. Also going by your experience with bikes, it might be a good idea to get a gen 1 10 since you have one already and are familiar with it. Also, it will come in handy to swap parts between bikes if need be.

A few things to think about... First, do you know how hard it is to sell a track only bike? I'm going to guess about 10 times as hard as a streetable bike and right now used street bike sales aren't exactly stellar. That probably won't improve for some time, so buying a track bike you want to flip needs to be thought out in terms of time - it could take 2 or more years to sell it and/or you taking a good loss on it. Second, riding any bike hard for 4, 5, 6 or more sessions on a track is taxing - if you're working hard, the size of the bike isn't going to factor much. Third, if you develop the skill, you can ride a well prepped litre bike like a 600 and be faster. The so-called carrying of corner speed can happen, but you have to pay way more attention to rolling the throttle on. My bike probably weighs less than or the same or near to the weight of most 600s - the only considerations are more compression braking (less braking than a smaller bike) at comparable engine speeds, more inertial force from the engine (more braking than smaller bike) esp. at comp. rpms, more lower rpm drive, and (slightly) more grip as they usu. have bigger rear tires. Let's face it, few people can ride any bike at 9/10 or above it's limits on any track. So, having better drive out of corners is preferable for a less experienced rider. And, in order for a 600 to match a litre bike's performance, it has to be ridden up in the stratosphere of its rev limits. Doing that on a track is a major exercise. For comparison, read the Sport Rider MOTY where the new zx6 was the only 6 run against the RSV4, BMW, MV, and Duc. It was less than a second slower than all of them, and very close to the MV and Duc, IIRC. Again, IIRC, it was harder to ride that fast, because they had to wring its neck. Anyway, if you can bench more than half the weight of the bike and you're tall enough to touch the ground flat footed while sitting on it, you should be able to well handle a litre bike, IMO.

I dont know if has been said yet but i would recommend getting something that you wont mind crashing and can find parts easily. The track is a great place to master your skills and develope new ones. You can learn a lot by doing some on track schools and getting some coaching. Riding a 600 fast will make you a better rider, riding a 1000 fast is hard work and can lead to poor habits. Blowing a corner on a 1000 is no big deal cause you can flog it in the straights and make up the time. I know a lot of decent trackday guys on SV's who can destroy guys on 1000's. Food for thought :thumbsup: It's an expensive hobby and I recommend starting on a bike that you could learn to out ride and not a bike that can outride you. Cheers

... Anyway, if you can bench more than half the weight of the bike and you're tall enough to touch the ground flat footed while sitting on it, you should be able to well handle a litre bike, IMO. Lorenzo and riders of his ilk (half or more of the pros out there?) notwithstanding, of course.

I'm 6' 2" so no issue there. I have my eyes on a couple of 600's pretty cheap. Just waiting for money to come in to buy one up. I am going to run my 10 in a couple of weeks though, just to get out there. Thanks again for all the advice, i think i will be very happy going the 600 route.

yo teeks! me and allen have a hookup for a generator at pbir, and we both happily run our 10rs there! that being said, i also have an 07 6r that I just decided to convert to track use. you'll probably see it on the 21st if you make it up again!

I started off riding my 10 m at the track but in all honesty it was tough because you have to develope a point and shoot style of riding which is toughon tires IMHO and you must be very ginger with the wrist at first. And with riding the 10 you will have lots of rear tire spin in the corners its just nature of the beast. Thats why i bought a cbr600rr and im in love with the bike too, its light & nimble and she has got some balls. My last race was in a liter bike class and I had no problems picking off the big bikes, and im not a lil guy im 6'2" 180lbs and i love the way the bike fit me with the rearsets and clip-ons. If you really wish to buy a bike go to the WERA board (http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48), thats where i bought my 600rr got a smoken deal. The plus side to that is you live in the south so there are tons of bikes in that area, you will have may to chose from! Very good advice. Get the ZX-6R. The Wera forums are full of deals. I ride my CBR1000RR on the track, and it takes more finesse than a 600 would. On a 10R, high siding is a very big risk. I would recommend taking some track day schools right away. If I were to do it all over again, I would get a 600 for the track. The most popular one is the R6 (lots of parts too), and the ZX-6R. You'd be surprised how close the 600s are to the 1000s unless your track has a ridiculous front straight. make sure you get good at body position and roll on as you stand the bike up. I high sided at about 80mph and it was no fun. after 4 track days I got bumped to Intermediate. With the traction control that is coming on the 2011 ZX-10R, I think that will be a nice safety net. But if you want a dedicated track bike, definitely get the ZX-6R and setup the clipons and bars to suit your size.

Looks like you ended up taking the 10 to the track.:thumbsup:

definitely start with a 600 I say. lighter, and you dont get in trouble as fast as a 1000 would

Heh someone bumped the old thread lol. Yea i did take the 10, and i have to say it was great, at the end of the day it did not feel like i was throwing around a big heavy 1000 all day, but it is the first gen :wink: In time i will keep looking for a 6, just unfortunately, life happened and the money isn't there right now, but all in good time. Until then i will keep taking the 10, learning, and improving, i am seriously hooked. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/TK954rr/zx10r/3.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/TK954rr/zx10r/2.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p318/TK954rr/zx10r/1.jpg