Dealers invoices on some bikes including the 2006 ZX10r! :dollarbil Please enjoy! I had to type all this! :eyecrazy: List Price:$11199 Dealer Invoice:$9593 This is the base dealer cost before freight charge and assembly credit. Freight Charge:$150 Deduct $20 In freight cost for units shipped to dealers prior to February 10,2006. All dealers pay the same standardized freight charge from Kawasaki to their dealership. Assembly Credit:$-74-per Kawasaki dealer pricesheet Each dealership has its own method of figuring cost of assembly and prepartion for sale. Ready to sell cost:$9669 This model Kasaksaki 5%(of list price) dealer holdback. This holdback money is paid to dealers in April or Octotber for units that are sold within the previous 6 months. Dealers must pay Kawasaki the full "Dealer Invoice" price and wait up to 6 months after selling the machine to recive the dealer holdback. Wholesale Incentives: none at this time Retail Incentives: none at this time The " Ready to sell cost" is the cost of the machine with NO PROFIT to the dealer. Dealers don not stay in business very long by selling machines for no profit. Many dealers charge addtional fees for "Freight and Set" over and above the selling price of the machine. Add the Selling Price" to the Freight and Setup" charges and subtract the "Ready to sell cost" to determine the PROFIT a dealer is asking to make Enjoy! :thumbsup:

it gives a notice to log on is all. BD

it gives a notice to log on is all. BD I will find anotherway to post it then. I tried to copy and paste and it didn't work. Give me a few.

it gives a notice to log on is all. BD What's your e-mail address and I will try it that way?

y2k_929rr@yahoo.com BD

Waiting...so are we supposed to guess and if we are right what do we win? I say $9999.00 - $9999.99

$9,499 Bd

is that your finally answer?

Yes mine is final

I did I was $330 off....I suck again!!!

pretty close! :lol:

pretty close! :lol: why yes i am. :rockwoot: only $94 off the invoice price. BD

why yes i am. :rockwoot: only $94 off the base price. BD I'm sending you an e-mail with other bikes invoices to that link. Hopefully you won't have to log on.

Can someone please explain the dealer holdback part. I don't understand what it means. Thanks

Kickback is what the dealer gets for selling a unit back from the manufacture more profit

good info to know walking in to buy an 06! dealerships, cars, bikes, trucks, retail stores, best buy, circuit city, frye's, none of these guys really make a dime off the actual car, bike, truck, tv, fridge, vcr. they make their $$ on the extended warranty, service plan, whatever they call it. also on accessories and service. my cousin would love for you to buy a vehicle from him but is more concerned that you keep coming back for service and buy accessories for you vehcile, thats were the $$ kicks in. a retail store makes maybe 2% if that on a TV, on the batteries you just bought or the monster cables, thats like 1000%, yes, a thousand. i use to work at CC and would buy a battery i needed, cost me like .75 and we charged $6, for a shity little battery!

Kickback is what the dealer gets for selling a unit back from the manufacture more profit So the dealer would get $560 from kawi just for selling the '06 10 within 6 months?

My 06 was on the showroom floor for 4 hour and had 6 people ask about it, but my buddy had a sold sign on it. LOL But I paid $9729.00 His boss said no lower because he was already "whoring" it out.

^Best price I have seen so far...

WHOA. . . Holdback first of all is 5% of MSRP for KAwasaki, invoice price still has holdback in it. If MSRP is 11,099 then holdback is 555.00, and the truth is there is some money made in the backend (i.e. warranty, service contract whatever) they should still make at least 12% above cost. And shame on whoever posted invoice and holdback, we'll make all the dealers volume dealers and none will give a shit about service. And P.S. the parts and service departments are there to support the sales department, the cannot support the store, there usual Gross Proffit (read Money they keep) is less than 2%, most of the money they generate is enough to pay the parts staff and keep the open to buy going.

^^theres no shame in posting the invoice or holdback, unless of course your one that wouldn't want a customer to be educated about such hidden profit gobblers. :rolleyes: BD

So this info leads me to believe I got a smoken deal over here in Ma. on my still crated 2005 magna red 10r for 8995 out the door. They did setup and prep for free! :mrgreen:

The 04' & 05' have a $1000.00 rebate, but still a smokin deal. Educated buyer. . .bullshit. . . you will make a bunch of dealership price whores. Don't kid yourself. Knowing dead cost on a motorcycle does not an educated buyer make. It makes a great dealership have to whore and make no money, that will cost you in the end. Trust me I know!!

While I am feelin' honest though, and currently out of the powersports business. . .Lets talk about set-up and prep. . lol. . .it is bullshit. . .it is already included in the invoice price. . .that will help make an educated buyer. . . not knowing dead cost. Any other dealership questions while I am feeling honest?

The 04' & 05' have a $1000.00 rebate, but still a smokin deal. Educated buyer. . .bullshit. . . you will make a bunch of dealership price whores. Don't kid yourself. Knowing dead cost on a motorcycle does not an educated buyer make. It makes a great dealership have to whore and make no money, that will cost you in the end. Trust me I know!! All of this info is available to auto buyers for free and dealers seem to be doing just fine. If there is enough demand for a product, a dealer does not HAVE to sell a bike for anything less than he wants to. If I walk into a dealership and try to lowball him, he is free to say no. Don't give me this "poor dealer" bullshit. They aren't doing anything they don't want to do.

You're kinda missing the point here, if you arm everyone with this info and they all go in and say I know you paid X for this bike and I want it for that price the dealer will eventually have to sell it for that because the jackass dealer down the road will do it, for every one they sell cheap they need to sell one above normal margins, to equal it all out. Do you want the dealership that you have bought umpteen bikes from to have to say no to you? And motorcycle dealers are not car dealers! There is way less room in a bike, unless it's a HD. . and who wants one of those.

:occasion1 Thanks for the info. Heading to the local dealer on Monday to hopefully purchase a new black ZX-10R. Between this info and the OTD price ($10,000.00) from our buddy in South River, NJ should give me some added power in the purchasing price of my new machine.

This looks like a printout from cyclecost.com....good site! :mrgreen:

i love how people always say "Trust me i KNOW." not that i have any posts but i have been reading on this site sense i got my 04. All i ever see is the people with less than 20 posts saying "Trust me i KNOW." and we all KNOW that no one ever lies on the internet or maybe posts somthing not quite true. And please give us a break on the whole trust me, anyone who has taken any high school debate hell even middle school debate class knows your evidence can't be " because i said so" with out having verifiyable facts to back up the claim. sooooooo Please anyone going to make any claim Dont use the dreaded words "Trust me i KNOW." ow and sorry for the rant. But trust me i know it needed to be done.

The 04' & 05' have a $1000.00 rebate, but still a smokin deal. Educated buyer. . .bullshit. . . you will make a bunch of dealership price whores. Don't kid yourself. Knowing dead cost on a motorcycle does not an educated buyer make. It makes a great dealership have to whore and make no money, that will cost you in the end. Trust me I know!! i'm sorry but your info about the 1k rebate has been going on for months so its old news around here and as for potential customers being educated i can see why you'd resist, i mean really why would you the tricky sales guy want a customer to be any more knowledgeable than a rock. As for costing me in the end, nope that ain't happenin sorry. BD

While I am feelin' honest though, and currently out of the powersports business. . .Lets talk about set-up and prep. . lol. . .it is bullshit. . .it is already included in the invoice price. . .that will help make an educated buyer. . . not knowing dead cost. Any other dealership questions while I am feeling honest? your not telling me or most the folks here anything new ok. the mentality of sales people just makes me literally laugh outloud. :spit: BD

i dont see why a dealer wouldn't sell at invoice cost, they can make their money on the holdback portion. Car dealer do it all the time. And car salesman will sell you a car at invoice just tell them thats all your going to pay. its sad that you have to even pay for the invoice info for bikes. All auto invoices are free through edmunds and kbb. It should be the same for bikes.

if you arm everyone with this info and they all go in and say I know you paid X for this bike and I want it for that price the dealer will eventually have to sell it for that because the jackass dealer down the road will do it,... And if everyone spins on their heel in a counter-clockwise rotation at the same time, we can reverse the spin of the Earth! :crackup: Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. Some people will be better educated in their purchase. But most people are lazy and won't go through the trouble either way. People who frequent boards like these tend to be from the first, educated group when it comes to a purchase. Fact is, this info has been readily available for years. Nothing new for you to worry about. World hasn't come to an end yet. :mrgreen:

And thank goodness for those lazy people:-) And I do know I was sales manager for a year at a 2200 unit a year dealership. Anyway I was just stating my opinion, sorry that some of you paotatoe heads are to thick to get it:-).. . .anyways I ride an 04' zx-10r and I love it. . .and thats why I'm here, not to suabble about this or that. . .god I love you guys. . . and I am glad you are intelligent enough to squabble with me:-)

yeah Mr Potatohead here with a thick head but plenty of knowledge to not let a sales guy try and pursuade the sheep into believing. :wink: carry on BD

"Sales Manager" potatoe head. . .king of the sales guys. . lol Love Ya, Me

To anyone in sales who is worrying about his/her job security, please rest easy. Like others have stated, the number of uninformed consumers will probably always outnumber the informed ones. Take a look at motorcycle parts, for instance. Everyone knows their local dealer generally cannot compete with internet prices when it comes to parts/accessories, nor do they have the desire to. They're banking on the uninformed consumers, or the consumers who are willing to pay an extra premium so they can purchase their Joe Rocket jacket THERE and NOW. As for myself, i'll order the jacket on the internet, get it 5 days later, and save $100 in the process. I say different strokes for different folks. Convenience has a cost. Some morons will spend $100 for some torn up Abercrombie and Fitch jeans. Anyone in their right mind would realize, "GEEZ, that's a solid rip-off!" But companies like A&F and Hollister still thrive because they have that consumer base who willl pay their ridiculous prices.

To anyone in sales who is worrying about his/her job security, please rest easy. Like others have stated, the number of uninformed consumers will probably always outnumber the informed ones. Take a look at motorcycle parts, for instance. Everyone knows their local dealer generally cannot compete with internet prices when it comes to parts/accessories, nor do they have the desire to. They're banking on the uninformed consumers, or the consumers who are willing to pay an extra premium so they can purchase their Joe Rocket jacket THERE and NOW. As for myself, i'll order the jacket on the internet, get it 5 days later, and save $100 in the process. I say different strokes for different folks. Convenience has a cost. Some morons will spend $100 for some torn up Abercrombie and Fitch jeans. Anyone in their right mind would realize, "GEEZ, that's a solid rip-off!" But companies like A&F and Hollister still thrive because they have that consumer base who willl pay their ridiculous prices. I kind of agree...but you have to remember dealer prices is not as available on the internet as searching for parts. I know I save alot on parts and am good at it most of the time. I fixed a wrecked 10 I bought for only 4k and bought parts for under $300 to fix it....then some personal painting...sold..6.5k...after I took it to the track a few times first. :helmet: ...but when it comes to buying a new bike...I don't have a clue, and threads like this or being a member of a Forum helps to see what others are paying. Unfortunately for me I never was part of a forum before I bought my 10 and went into my dealer and said I can pay you right now 11.5k otd(this was the first month or so the 04 10 came out)...thinking that is a good price. Well, of course they came back and said no problem and we will through in a 5yr warranty. So, my problem and maybe others experiance this :dontknow:...but I wanted that 10 so bad I wasn't thinking right so I went in with my high # I was going to pay but wanted to come home with the brand new 10 so bad..in Bloo of course :mrgreen:

Anyone who wants the 06' 10r bad enough, meaning right now for the 06' riding season is going to have to pay up. 11.2k plus whatever is not unreasonable at this point in time however what I find funny is if your willing to ride last year's model as of this past Dec. maybe even earlier anyone could of had a 05' 10r for a couple thousand bucks cheaper. I was actually surprised to learn that the Suzuki/Honda/Yamaha dealer 10 miles down the road had 10r's still in crated. Evidently after a tour of their warehouse I was informed that they are the mother store for about four other bike shops here in the greater Boston, Ma. area. It took about a month for me to decide to make the purchase at the time I already had a 03' z1000(awesome bike by Kawi) with only 7grand for miles. This bike was all stock and nearly mint shape. KBB lists trade in value at 4k while retail is between 5,200-5,700k and this is based on twice the mileage as mine. In the end I traded her for 4k and paid 4,995 otd. for my 10r. I wasn't thinking about Kawi and their annual 1k rebate which they always seem to offer this time of the year but I was a little undecided about trading my Z since she was paid for and honestly the 10r ain't got nothing in the looks department compared to the Z1000. I feel a little ripped and I probably should of waited to sell my Z privately for 1,500 more but hey I missed having a fairing and the 10r is way lighter with a lot more power. I was going to do a ton of mods to the Z like 2k worth and it would still get smoked by any new literbike so ultimately I think I made an okay decision. What furthers my confidence in the purchase of this decision is the mentioning of dealer invoice in this thread. It's not the first figure that was thrown on the internet for all to informed to get a looksy. But I feel safe in knowing at least I got a decent price despite giving my baby away to the steelers cause that was a tough call, all in the theme of keeping up with the Jones's. But I must admit the 10r mill is light years ahead compared to old zx9 based powerplant. Clutch pull is lighter and shifting is smoother. A lot of folks complain about the gearing being too tall, well I'll say this I'm still breaking her in but in the two rides I've taken she doesn't seem to lug in 1st and 2nd the way my z did doing real world speeds on real road behind cagers. I would just like to know this. Where does anybody find out about dealer invoice? I kinda hinted at the question at the dealers and their answer is that Kawi is offering a 1000 dolla rebate. So wtf? Oh yeah Salesguy put a sock in it.

I say, $10,000 (+- a thousand or so dollars) is a STEAL for a brand new, current model year Japenese sport bike. I don't care if the dealer makes a little coin off my purchase, as long as I don't see it as excessive. I purchased my R6 in March of 03, so I probably paid a $1,000 more than the person who purchased the last bike in October (them's the breaks). Both my local Kawai and Yamaha dealer are great and I'd like for them to stay around for awhile. Truth be told, I'm going to request my next bike to be delivered in the crate. The assembly I received with the ZX10 was so bad I practically had to reasseble the bike myself and that sucks when you really really want to take it out for a ride. or @ least that's my .02

I say, $10,000 (+- a thousand or so dollars) is a STEAL for a brand new, current model year Japenese sport bike. I don't care if the dealer makes a little coin off my purchase, as long as I don't see it as excessive. I purchased my R6 in March of 03, so I probably paid a $1,000 more than the person who purchased the last bike in October (them's the breaks). Both my local Kawai and Yamaha dealer are great and I'd like for them to stay around for awhile. Truth be told, I'm going to request my next bike to be delivered in the crate. The assembly I received with the ZX10 was so bad I practically had to reasseble the bike myself and that sucks when you really really want to take it out for a ride. or @ least that's my .02 Circusnuts, if you find a dealer who is willing to ship you a new bike in the original manufacturers crate, please let me know. I've always wanted to assemble my own machine and be the only one who has wrenched on it. However, every dealer I have ever posed this question to has refused to sell me a bike in the crate. They claim they must assemble the bike for insurance and warranty purposes?? I know that buying a bike in the crate can be done though, because i've read of people doing it on this site.

hmm, have asked the same question. No dice for me.

Maybe someone will chime in who has done this?

I'll chime in.......:hello: Only someone who has a REAL close relationship with the dealer is going to get to assemble or even help with their own bike. WAY to much liability. If Kawasaki found out they would refuse any warranty work and slap some owners hands. A lot of dealers don't even assemble there own bikes. They order their bikes from a warehouse where they are assembled and shipped to the dealers already put together. There is a BIG outfit in Ohio that does this for dealers in surrounding states including some dealers here in Kentucky.

By the way....the warehouse deal keeps dealers from having to store crated bikes because they have limited showroom space. Limited showroom space means the need for MORE space to keep crated bikes. That space could be used for the service dept. or parts inventory or whatever. It eliminates the need for a forklift also. And puts the assembly liability on the warehouses shoulders. The dealer is still supposed to fill out the pre-delivery sheet and go over eveything but I have seen the bikes put right on the showroom floor with the batteries serviced and fuel in the tanks. The sales guys start the "new cool" models with out checking the oil level or anything else and rev em up ice cold and new.:sad: ( I saw an XR80 come in off the semi from that big outfit in Ohio with a bunch of other bikes. I was helping to push them in to the store......the footpegs were on opposite sides with the cleats facing down......:headshake )

Yes . . that whole warehouse thing, we used on based out of Ohio, we would occasionally get machines put together wrong or damaged, that sucks. But it saves a ton of space, our honda, yamaha, suzuki, polaris machines would be picked up by them and crated at the warehouse, when we ordered them for the showroom or for a customer they would build the bike and deliver it the next day, kawasaki and arctic cats would ship directly to us in crates, you could also request machines be shipped from the warehouse in crates, that was mainly for racers who would tear it all down anyway. We sponsored a factory honda team trx450r, he would take everything in crates, and our service manager ran crazy horse racing a moto/supercross team, they would get it all crated. I know a few dealers that still have 05' 10's in crates, not because there a huge dealer but because kawasaki built so many, in 05' you could get an 04' much cheaper, hopefully there will be some 06' leftovers also, but I really doubt it. As far as paying for something, start asking the 06' r6 owners what they paid, I sold the 3 I had allocated for 500.00 over MSRP:-)

My 06 was on the showroom floor for 4 hour and had 6 people ask about it, but my buddy had a sold sign on it. LOL But I paid $9729.00 His boss said no lower because he was already "whoring" it out. Hmmmm, thats the exact price my black 2006 would have cost and I was first on the list for a black one...I bet I know where you got her from.... LOL Anyway, Nobody knows what the bike actually cost except for the dealer. I started doing research last year to become a dealer for Kawaski/ honda and yammi and i have to say the actual dealers price is far far below the baseline price you gave. I will give you an example. a 2005 gixxer 1000 (K5) selling using the above pricing will sell for $9,600. The actual owner/dealer price per unit is $7,600 plus or minus a few hundreds. (deals are still negotiated on volume). The above price is on moving nearly 30 units...im not sure if that includes the 750 and 600's. $9,600 is the cost that includes the owners personal profit margin, employee saleries, rent/mortgage, equipment depreciation for the shop and a list more. This price is somewhat of a comfortable level or basicaly lets the dealer know at what price he can still operate and pay himself , bills and employees. Figuring the actual cost of a bike is a very complex and long process. In the end Most Dealers can comfortably sell most $11,000 bikes for $9,900 range everything over that is gravy. Anything under that (example) will cut into the owners personal profit. Personal Profit is the amount of money that actualy pays you after all expenses are paid. Im still working on my proposal....I have a contact with the kawi rep for the east coast... but I need a better and cheaper loacation for my area, plus I might have to take on a partner since its quite a bit of upfront money (like opening a Fanchise...) The upfront money is close to opening up a Wendys...another idea if this bellies up. Hope this is somewhat helpfull.

Damn i think i fogot to list the order of prices.... $7600 +/- is actual dealer price (this is what it cost out of his pocket) $9600 +/- is the mark up after EVERYONE gets paid and minimum profit margins are made. $11,000 +/- is the MSRP the Ideal price to sell the unit for....if all units sold for this price or close the dealer will have a very sucessful year. on top of this the owner get certain perks from from Suzuki like one example is a all paid trip (like hawaii) for a week. High volume dealers get these perks and they get bump to the top of the list. for new model delieveries.

Damn i think i fogot to list the order of prices.... $7600 +/- is actual dealer price (this is what it cost out of his pocket) $9600 +/- is the mark up after EVERYONE gets paid and minimum profit margins are made. $11,000 +/- is the MSRP the Ideal price to sell the unit for....if all units sold for this price or close the dealer will have a very sucessful year. on top of this the owner get certain perks from from Suzuki like one example is a all paid trip (like hawaii) for a week. High volume dealers get these perks and they get bump to the top of the list. for new model delieveries. I don't know where you get this volume thing, but there is a fair trade law that says all dealers will pay the same thing, I have only ever seen Honda do some side dealing where if you purchase so many bike, and sell them all, you get what is called flexible bonus bucks which is a manufacturer rebate applied up to $500 per unit to help sell whatever is left of some stuff. A bike dealer can buy 1 gsxr1000 or 100 and pay the same amount for them. Guess you just weren't smart enough to become a dealer. There's a joke in the bike industry, you know how to make a million bucks in the bike business? Start with 2 million.

I don't know where you get this volume thing, but there is a fair trade law that says all dealers will pay the same thing, I have only ever seen Honda do some side dealing where if you purchase so many bike, and sell them all, you get what is called flexible bonus bucks which is a manufacturer rebate applied up to $500 per unit to help sell whatever is left of some stuff. A bike dealer can buy 1 gsxr1000 or 100 and pay the same amount for them. Guess you just weren't smart enough to become a dealer. There's a joke in the bike industry, you know how to make a million bucks in the bike business? Start with 2 million. So I give a plethora of detailed information that goes well beyond general scope of this topic and all you have to say is “ I’m not smart enough to become a dealer? Again Wow!!! And if you actually reread my post when I described Volume and prices I did say higher volume dealers will get bumped to the top of the list. By saying Deals are negotiated by volume, that encompass more than prices. And you also just proved what I said right with the following statement. (quote) I have only ever seen Honda do some side dealing where if you purchase so many bike, and sell them all, you get what is called flexible bonus bucks which is a manufacturer rebate applied up to $500 per unit to help sell whatever is left of some stuff (end Quote) ps: I used gixxers as an example….think again about what I wrote…I said I did my research on Kaw, Yammi, and hold on….Honda. …The only one you actually said you have seen volume deals on. I’m not here to give line for line what I have been working on…and still working on. And the not so smart part? Once again Wow…. The only one sounding rather stupid is you…why? Because youre entire post is based around one out of at least 10 point I described, and even with that you was still off (not correct). The biggest problem I have right now is location. I want a dealership in DC, but the real-estate cost…and it cost dearly. If I go outside of the DC borders where it’s cheaper I’m still damned, because of the rule of having no Motorcycle Dealership within 17 miles of each other. I still can’t see why you would say something so ignorant…enlighten me please…what’s your deal? Are you mad that im giving away some inside stuff?

ok, so i see your point, but there is a lot more to it and i don't see where you come up with some crazy figure of $7600 for a gixxer 1k. I have been in this industry for 17 years now, i would love to see that kind of markup to cover our costs so that everything above invoice was pure profit. our overhead comes out of the profit between invoice and what we sell it for as well as the holdback. we are a 5 line dealer here so i know the games the manufacturers play and honda is the only one that does anything with volume and it's in the flexible bonus bucks program.

Hmmmm, thats the exact price my black 2006 would have cost and I was first on the list for a black one...I bet I know where you got her from.... LOL Anyway, Nobody knows what the bike actually cost except for the dealer. I started doing research last year to become a dealer for Kawaski/ honda and yammi and i have to say the actual dealers price is far far below the baseline price you gave. I will give you an example. a 2005 gixxer 1000 (K5) selling using the above pricing will sell for $9,600. The actual owner/dealer price per unit is $7,600 plus or minus a few hundreds. (deals are still negotiated on volume). The above price is on moving nearly 30 units...im not sure if that includes the 750 and 600's. $9,600 is the cost that includes the owners personal profit margin, employee saleries, rent/mortgage, equipment depreciation for the shop and a list more. This price is somewhat of a comfortable level or basicaly lets the dealer know at what price he can still operate and pay himself , bills and employees. Figuring the actual cost of a bike is a very complex and long process. In the end Most Dealers can comfortably sell most $11,000 bikes for $9,900 range everything over that is gravy. Anything under that (example) will cut into the owners personal profit. Personal Profit is the amount of money that actualy pays you after all expenses are paid. Im still working on my proposal....I have a contact with the kawi rep for the east coast... but I need a better and cheaper loacation for my area, plus I might have to take on a partner since its quite a bit of upfront money (like opening a Fanchise...) The upfront money is close to opening up a Wendys...another idea if this bellies up. Hope this is somewhat helpfull. OK I call bullshit. . . 7600 is far below actual dealer cost, and 9600 is about invoice cost, selling it at that pays almost nobody, talking about holdback again suzuki's is 3% of MSRP thats roughly $330.00 on the 1000, that almost pays for it to be put together. . hehe. .and honda, along with yamaha, kawasaki, and suzuki do not offer volume discounts to dealers. PERIOD. Arctic Cat and Polaris along with Ski Doo, they will do that on atv's and sleds (whores). Research further:-P

ok, so i see your point, but there is a lot more to it and i don't see where you come up with some crazy figure of $7600 for a gixxer 1k. I have been in this industry for 17 years now, i would love to see that kind of markup to cover our costs so that everything above invoice was pure profit. our overhead comes out of the profit between invoice and what we sell it for as well as the holdback. we are a 5 line dealer here so i know the games the manufacturers play and honda is the only one that does anything with volume and it's in the flexible bonus bucks program. Well, i can't speak for your dealership, Im going by the two dealerships out of 6 that would speak to me. The only reason they spoke to me was because I pose no threat to them and there sales. And they don’t specialize in sport bikes (hand full sold per year). I do know that the figure I gave for a 1000cc sport bike (high 7K) figure is on point.... You said you have been in this industry for 17 years and everything gets paid between the invoices lets say. $9,600 and what you sale it for (max of MSRP) $11,000 So for every bike sold there is a profit of $1,400 per bike (max). With this profit your saying that its enough to pay. · The owner (his salary after bills) · the owner’s personal expenses · The employees (most are on commission but some get a baseline salary similar to waitresses) · Mechanics in the shop · electric bills · waters · gas · Equipment depreciation: · tools, all equipment in the shop that have a life span and needs to be replaced periodically · The money you set aside for repairs and upgrades (roof, furniture mis) · Insurance · rent/mortgage. There is a long list of things that goes into running a business, as you should know. Im going to give you one example of this. I like to use Gixxers because I know a lot of places I can get them for cheap (for my associates) and they are some of the few you find cheap. Using your method of (quote) our profit comes from the invoice price to what we can make off of it (end quote) Everyone pretty much knows the average invoice price for a 1000cc bike is about mid to high 9k ($9,500 to $9,900) You are saying that the invoice price is the actual dealers price....That you should know is not true....The dealer/owner 90% of the time never ever tells anyone what he paid for his units. You should know that that low profit margin between invoce and MSRP isnt enuff to run a full dealership....The math just dont add up to the expenses. Here is an example of a dealership who does mostly low volume sport bike sales. Im sure he wouldn't be selling his 2006 model suzuki 1000 for $9,300 (below invoice) if he wasn't making a profit. Invoice should pay most of the dealership expenses and non comission employees (i do addmit I haven't gone into detail about employee pay and benifits) But here is just one example... Do you believe that this dealership is giving away his bikes? MSRP= $10,999 List Price= $9,399 http://www.deepcreekmarina.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=05005152X2K27K2006J2I59I57JPMQ1568R0&veh=22032&CatDesc=Motorcycles http://www.deepcreekmarina.com/images/NewVehicles/nv22032_1_400.jpg even if that price was a tad bit above invoice, do youreally thing that combined with clothing sales and shop is enuff to run a profitable dealership ? ps: when there are motorcycles left over like the one a member got from here for $8500. That would mean the owner is paying you to take the bike since its way below invoice.

OK I call bullshit. . . 7600 is far below actual dealer cost, and 9600 is about invoice cost, selling it at that pays almost nobody, talking about holdback again suzuki's is 3% of MSRP thats roughly $330.00 on the 1000, that almost pays for it to be put together. . hehe. .and honda, along with yamaha, kawasaki, and suzuki do not offer volume discounts to dealers. PERIOD. Arctic Cat and Polaris along with Ski Doo, they will do that on atv's and sleds (whores). Research further:-P Well i dont know what to tell you then. The only figure most of you guys should be concerned about is that actuall invoice, and not the true price the owner/dealership pays for it. ANything below that invoice price literaly comes out of the owner pockets. Like I said the margin between the actual owners cost and invoice falls under expenses to run the business. And that generaly a bare minimum expense. So the figure I gave isnt some way out lowball price. Don't dwell on $7,600 exactly , but the example Im giving was and once again im not giving an actuall manufacture, in other words it's not a Suzuki since I never talk to them. Most sales guys or even mangagers dont know the what the boss went out and paid for the units. And Why should you? If it was me I know I wouldnt, you might decide to sale all the bike lower than normal because you know there is still some money being made off of them, but if you thught that i paid more for it them you would sell it higher.

what most dealerships around here do is list a bike at or below invoice, then charge freight and prep to make the profit, they also bank on doing the financing so they get a kickback from the bank, and selling extended warranties and credit life/ disability. also any of the accessories that are sold with the unit. you forgot the holdback which really doesn't amount to much if you look back a few pages it's about $550 on a zx10. There is no other money that is involved in the deal unless there is a rebate from the manufacturer. Yes that is the only profit that is involved. There are plenty of scams that let a dealer "sell" a bike below invoice and still make a profit. If you're selling a bike for $10,000 and charging $1,000 in fees, you're essentially selling the bike for $11,000. I once saw a dealer selling bike below invoice and charging $1,800 for an extended warranty that you were forced to buy to get the price they advertised. We do NOT play these games and we lose sales because of it. people don't listen when you try to tell them that it really isn't a good deal they claim to have found at another dealer only there are so many fees it's crazy. usually you can't convince them of it till they bring in the sales slip so you can point it out to them.

ok, so i see your point, but there is a lot more to it and i don't see where you come up with some crazy figure of $7600 for a gixxer 1k. I have been in this industry for 17 years now, i would love to see that kind of markup to cover our costs so that everything above invoice was pure profit. our overhead comes out of the profit between invoice and what we sell it for as well as the holdback. we are a 5 line dealer here so i know the games the manufacturers play and honda is the only one that does anything with volume and it's in the flexible bonus bucks program. Also, real quick. On average how many new units (motorcycles )do your dealership sale per season/year? not including the quads and jet skis? How many employees do you have on staff, commission and non comission (seperate). what is the average square lot of you dealership. (and do you also have a storage unit?) This isnt even enuff information to get a general work up, but it will give me an idea. feel free to divulge any information you have as far as bills and stuff, i will not ask because I know that might get a little bit too personal....but if you can give it Id like to see how you guys make a sucessfull profit off of the invoice.

I am in management, have all access to all the books from the manufacturer's, see the invoices, see the holdback checks, deal with the co-op funds for advertising, there is no other money that you are claiming the dealer makes from selling a bike.

what most dealerships around here do is list a bike at or below invoice, then charge freight and prep to make the profit, they also bank on doing the financing so they get a kickback from the bank, and selling extended warranties and credit life/ disability. also any of the accessories that are sold with the unit. you forgot the holdback which really doesn't amount to much if you look back a few pages it's about $550 on a zx10. There is no other money that is involved in the deal unless there is a rebate from the manufacturer. Yes that is the only profit that is involved. There are plenty of scams that let a dealer "sell" a bike below invoice and still make a profit. If you're selling a bike for $10,000 and charging $1,000 in fees, you're essentially selling the bike for $11,000. I once saw a dealer selling bike below invoice and charging $1,800 for an extended warranty that you were forced to buy to get the price they advertised. This is way more accurate, and the sales manager knows exactly what the bike cost, he needs to to "desk a deal" properly, the dealer principle doesn't keep secrets from the sales manager, in most cases (mine) I knew more about what was paid for the unit than he did or wanted to know, I did the ordering on the metric side, so when you say "he has secrets" you are a bit confused on how the dealership works. . and I would suggest that if you plan to make mpney. . .open a Wendy's :heyyou:

profit also comes from parts and service, we sell about 1200 new units a year, have one building that is 16,000 square feet, a second showroom for off-road and atv that is about 8,000 and a seperate service storage building. We have 3 full time sales including myself 3 full time 1 part time parts, 1 service manager, 1 assistant service manager, 3 full time mechanics and 1 part time, 2 f&i girls, an accountant and the owner and his wife.

i forgot to mention that used bikes are a money maker for dealerships, but new ones we get beat down to where there is really no profit. we don't sell very many sportbikes here because of that. mostly cruisers and wings.

i forgot to mention that used bikes are a money maker for dealerships. AMEN!!!

what most dealerships around here do is list a bike at or below invoice, then charge freight and prep to make the profit, they also bank on doing the financing so they get a kickback from the bank, and selling extended warranties and credit life/ disability. also any of the accessories that are sold with the unit. you forgot the holdback which really doesn't amount to much if you look back a few pages it's about $550 on a zx10. There is no other money that is involved in the deal unless there is a rebate from the manufacturer. Yes that is the only profit that is involved. There are plenty of scams that let a dealer "sell" a bike below invoice and still make a profit. If you're selling a bike for $10,000 and charging $1,000 in fees, you're essentially selling the bike for $11,000. I once saw a dealer selling bike below invoice and charging $1,800 for an extended warranty that you were forced to buy to get the price they advertised. We do NOT play these games and we lose sales because of it. people don't listen when you try to tell them that it really isn't a good deal they claim to have found at another dealer only there are so many fees it's crazy. usually you can't convince them of it till they bring in the sales slip so you can point it out to them. That may be true (the games part) , but this dealership is not one of them. You can call and ask, But that is the out the door price. How do I know? I have two friends that have them. My best friend rides one (K5) right now. No game, no assemble prices OTD price if you pick it up. Delevery is another price. Anyway, i will not sit here and fight about prices. As the general manager you should see all the books, after invoice. But i could stay here all day saying my side and you telling yours. I'll call it a Draw.

good luck if you decide to open one, at this point in the game i will only say that you have quite a bit of research to do before you open a dealership. if you think it's all money rolling in, you should get ready for a rude awakening. also take into consideration that most of your money is made in 4 months out of the 12 that you are open, the rest of the time you are living off of the savings the store has put aside from those 4 months. do some more research and send me a private messege when you do find out the truth. you also forgot to include all the interest that the floorplan companies charge the dealer for the bikes he has in inventory.

good luck if you decide to open one, at this point in the game i will only say that you have quite a bit of research to do before you open a dealership. if you think it's all money rolling in, you should get ready for a rude awakening. also take into consideration that most of your money is made in 4 months out of the 12 that you are open, the rest of the time you are living off of the savings the store has put aside from those 4 months. do some more research and send me a private messege when you do find out the truth. you also forgot to include all the interest that the floorplan companies charge the dealer for the bikes he has in inventory. I actually have that one covered also, Like I said i wasn't listing every single thing I've discovered. Not once in my report did i say it was a high profit margin. I am still working my plan up now, and taking on a partner who was working on the same plan in another state. If selling motorcycles/powersports Vhic wasn't a profitable business, then why would anyone even think of doing it for one, or why is it that poawersport shops have a low failure rate? and powersport retailers/dealers or on strong raise for the last 5+ years? There have to be some kind of money made somewhere.... Im doing it because I love everything about motorcycles. Racing them on the track, riding in the streets the whole lifestyle that goes with motorcycles... So if the money is low at least I will be doing something that I love with all my heart. Here i would have thought you two guys would encourage this eventure vs. damning it. in parting, Before I sign any documents, or transfer any money I will have a fully detailed reseach package together. ps: you said you sale 1200 motorcycles per year... well if you only made about $330 per unit like you said that = $396,000 on motorcycles alone with your staff numbers...thats a pretty penny especialy if thats before the rest of the powersports vehicles (atv's, seedos etc) Well If you really are willing to give me better research i will leave you a PM and a phone number so we can talk. As a side note, I'm also planing on starting small with repairs and used bikes if thats what I need to draw in the manufactures.

one thing to let you know, honda currently does not like setting up dealers that are multi line, they prefer to do the power stores that sell everything honda, suzuki and kaw like to piggy back on the other brands in multi line shops, it helps them. most of the people in the industry have been in it forever at this point, our owner has been in business for 40 years, so most of the cost are offset over a long period of time. most of the ones that i've seen just getting into it fail, we have one dealership close to us that has transfered 3 times in the last 4 years. large car dealers have been the current and previous owners. others that i have seen transfer lately in the state were from one owner to a larger dealer the larger dealer ended up absorbing the smaller dealer and closing down the shop they bought. a few of those types of transfers have happened in the last few years in ohio. if you go single line i would suggest honda or yamaha as the only 2 that can survive alone just starting out they seem to be the largest volume. i'm not saying there isn't money to be made in the industry just not the type you may think there is. it is a fun business that's why i did this instead of an office job.

I apoligize if you think I was damning it. . by all means open a store and have a great time. . I was just pointing out some of the info you posess is flawed. You say 396,000 is alot to make. . .with the staff it takes to sell those bikes, including service dept., parts dept., office staff. . that is far from enough. . .not to mention as sdr2ent pointed out flooring costs. . jesus. . you would file bk the first year. . a couple of things you will really need are a great sales manager. . a shark in the finance office. . and a service manager that knows his shit:-) If you do decide to venture into this business let me know I will buy my next bike from you. . . at invoice minus holdback of course. . and it'll be a cash deal:-) Lot's of luck Bro. . .and I will do all I can to help you:-)

Sorry for the 2 day Hiatus, ive been painting my teams race pics...one more to go. Thanks guys I will followup as things progress....but its going to be a long pregression. The main thing I want to find out is if I can be profitable in my loaction (DC). Real Estate is So Very High !!!!! Thanks again.

So this info leads me to believe I got a smoken deal over here in Ma. on my still crated 2005 magna red 10r for 8995 out the door. They did setup and prep for free! :mrgreen: Please send me the dealer information!!