Dunno if this is the place....but..... I'm looking for advice on this, prolly from some of the fast guys here. How hard can you brake into the corner? And with how much lean can you still brake hard? I'm talking after you've started to tip in and rolling in to the apex. I've always struggled a bit with it (having learnt on bikes with X-plys...) and just want a bit of a steer in the right direction without having to find it the hard way... I don't have an issue with straight line, I get the rear off the ground on occasion, just chicken out as soon as I start tipping in, which of course means I have to brake earlier... Help?

There is no general rule for angles and braking,depends on surface,tires, setup.......the only way is the hard way. Trackday is the way to go, same curves all day long. You start braking hard on the straight and letting it of towards apex. As your confidence growing you will find the point, and it will hurt and cost when you find it:mrgreen: Yes, the Gen 1 is bit light in the back so you have to use the enginebraking and rear brake to. Hows your geometri? Im even with the triples front and stock rear with 190/55 profile so its a bit raised compared to stock. Some like to raise it back an drop it in front, but that will make it even harder to keep the back on the ground braking. Were i live the tracks are quite technical but i find mine nimble enough with my setup. Good luck/Ulf

that front tire grip holds up to alot more then you think. i didnt learn to trail brake till i raced, trackdays u dont win shit so u dont push ur limits. u dont look for the limit untill ur trying to win races..

only thing that will give you that knowledge is experience im afraid.......as it all depends on a lot of variables......

Spend a few hundred in the spring or summer and do track school..That in itself will put you on the right track (no pun)in answering your question....It will be the most fun and best mod you ever buy for your bike...After all that is said and done,do track dayzzzz,your gonna be dried out,tired as hell,spend a nice lil chunk of beer money but the smile and thrill is for ever..

Considering just the physics, (and for fear of sounding contrite) You can brake and turn in until you exceed grip.... Duh! Just how much, depends on too many factors to list. You know when you reach it.....sliding the front or crashing... Tires make a huge difference!! As a rule of thumb, If you are smooth, braking hard up to turn-in, then easing off as you complete the transition onto the throttle and corner exit.....being totally off the brakes as you apex, you will be fine. (hopefully!) On some transitions, I am actually manually rolling off the throttle, while braking, (braking first, then reducing throttle) and then releasing the brakes as I apply throttle.

Ideally, any braking should be done upright having already set your body position up for the corner............If you have over cooked it, this is where trail braking comes in, the ability to slow down and alter your corner entry/exit point and entry/exit speed, whilst cranked over..........all you need is experience :)

Gotta say I agree with the majority here...we could tell you everything we know and still until you can wrap your head around what you can get away with by trying it or seeing it you simply won't do it. Variables such as suspension, body weight and position, tires, track etc are all to many to talk around. Experience is the key and latching on to slightly faster guys is the go, you'll end up braking deeper and deeper out of sheer necessity to keep up. Nothing can replace time and experience. :thumbsup:

Yeah, definitely way too many variables with bike setup, and your personal riding style. For myself, I do find myself braking into just about every corner rolling off the brakes and rolling back onto the throttle with little or no time in between. However, while leaned over, obviously you gotta be carefull not to tuck the front. Just keep getting more seat time out there at the track. Once you know the bike and that specific track extremely well, you will start making even finer detailed improvements with late braking and getting onto the throttle earlier/harder.

all you need is experience :) Lol, ok... I'm in My mid 40's...been on bikes most of my life and done about a million trackdays, I run within the top handfull in the fast group here. I know it seems like a bit of a noob question, but it's just something I can't get my head around... and just thought I'd throw it out there and see what I got back. :dontknow: All good tho, cheers for everyone's replies, I guess I just need to man up a bit and experiment eh :helmet:

Lol, ok... I'm in My mid 40's...been on bikes most of my life and done about a million trackdays, I run within the top handfull in the fast group here. I know it seems like a bit of a noob question, but it's just something I can't get my head around... and just thought I'd throw it out there and see what I got back. :dontknow: All good tho, cheers for everyone's replies, I guess I just need to man up a bit and experiment eh :helmet: With your experience in mind then... I found that by continuing to hold some front brake into the corner it helped to keep the weight transfer back to the rear smoother and to a minimum (not unsettle the bike) and made the bike turn better as staying on the brake slightly reduces your rake. I then basically am rolling on the throttle as letting go of the front, kinda tapering of the front brake as my wrist moves back on the throttle. This, as others above have said keeps the movement of the bike smooth again on the exit. If you already knew the why behind the idea of trail braking then ignore this, but sometimes I find knowing why really helps the how. :thumbsup:

Lol, ok... I'm in My mid 40's...been on bikes most of my life and done about a million trackdays, I run within the top handfull in the fast group here. We sound the same :hello: :lol:

Good post! This is making me think I can probably brake a bit later than I usually do. I'll try to play around with it next track day (Chuckwalla Oct 21!!!).

Good post! This is making me think I can probably brake a bit later than I usually do. I'll try to play around with it next track day (Chuckwalla Oct 21!!!). Yeah I thought I was ok under brakes, then I started racing... Initially, I can tell you it was very demoralising, riding with (getting in the way of) guys with SERIOUS riding talent! It was fairly humbling in the beginning and was a real eye opener in regards to what can be done under brakes with experience and balls. My theory is; The day you know it all is the day you stop learning. I love the fact that you never stop learning when it comes to riding, it's what keeps me interested, the drive to be better (quicker). :wink:

then I started racing... :lol: Thats always an eye opener eh :cool: My theory is; The day you know it all is the day you stop learning. I love the fact that you never stop learning when it comes to riding, it's what keeps me interested, the drive to be better (quicker). :wink: :+1:

Yeah I thought I was ok under brakes, then I started racing... Initially, I can tell you it was very demoralising, riding with (getting in the way of) guys with SERIOUS riding talent! It was fairly humbling in the beginning and was a real eye opener in regards to what can be done under brakes with experience and balls. My theory is; The day you know it all is the day you stop learning. I love the fact that you never stop learning when it comes to riding, it's what keeps me interested, the drive to be better (quicker). :wink: Haha, yikes! Well, I'll prepare myself for demoralization (is that a word?). I'm taking the New Racer Course at Chuckwalla on the 21st to get my race license and I hope to do at least one race next season.

Good post! This is making me think I can probably brake a bit later than I usually do. I'll try to play around with it next track day (Chuckwalla Oct 21!!!). I used to be able to rely on horspower to pass everyone but once i encountered teenagers on built motor 600s i started having issues. I learned that I'd have to learn to pass on the brakes or set them up through a few corners for a pass. I know that my normal brake marker when im riding by myself has a safety margin in it. If i need to go beyond it to pass someone on the brakes i can do it, but sometimes it gets a little sideways. In general... you can always brake a bit later than you usually do. :thumbsup: Yeah I thought I was ok under brakes, then I started racing... Initially, I can tell you it was very demoralising, riding with (getting in the way of) guys with SERIOUS riding talent! It was fairly humbling in the beginning and was a real eye opener in regards to what can be done under brakes with experience and balls. My theory is; The day you know it all is the day you stop learning. I love the fact that you never stop learning when it comes to riding, it's what keeps me interested, the drive to be better (quicker). :wink: I used to think i was pretty quick in the advanced group a track day. Once i was comfortable i made the jump to racing. My first novice race i was 4th (after qualifying poorlyin the rain on slicks, ran the fastest lap in the race by 3/4 of a second). 19th to 4th in 8 laps. My 2nd race in novice i won in the rain. My 3rd race i was bumped to Amateur and finished 16th. UUGGHHH!!! That was a reality check. My best finish in Amateur at that series by the end of the year was 6th and i ran over 3 seconds faster than my fastest lap in that first Novice race. Going racing is very humbling! And its HARD WORK! Haha, yikes! Well, I'll prepare myself for demoralization (is that a word?). I'm taking the New Racer Course at Chuckwalla on the 21st to get my race license and I hope to do at least one race next season. Just be humble and remember that you're new. We were all new at some point. I hardly slept a wink the night before my frist trackday. I still get the butterflies! It's awesome though, that 15 minutes before a race when i get my earplugs in and helmet on and want to be left the fuck alone... the anxiety, the butterflies, the anticipation, the roll-call horn, hitting pit lane and staging with 30 other bikes then getting waved onto the track for the warmup lap... its like nothing else.

Haha, yikes! Well, I'll prepare myself for demoralization (is that a word?). I'm taking the New Racer Course at Chuckwalla on the 21st to get my race license and I hope to do at least one race next season. I'll be in the same new racers school on Friday as well. I'll shoot you a PM with my #.

Ideally, any braking should be done upright having already set your body position up for the corner............If you have over cooked it, this is where trail braking comes in, the ability to slow down and alter your corner entry/exit point and entry/exit speed, whilst cranked over..........all you need is experience :) "Ideally" doesn't work in the racing world. thus we learn to brake to the apex.. because if we don't.. other people will win. The best way to describe lean angle and braking is to remember, you only have 100% traction available.. The percent you use for braking and cornering should not exceed 100%.. if you do... u fall http://irnieracing.com/images/stories/website%20title%20pic%20900%20a.jpg See video: http://vimeo.com/15856534

Here's a pic from a few years ago.... http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n282/ttoldnes/Picture069.jpg